Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

or however that dang word is written! : ) Use this forum to discuss those things that are related to, directly, or indirectly, fly fishing, i.e., tackle, catalogs, single malt scotch, cigar preferences, pipes, camera gear, etc. This is sort of an off topic area but one related to bamboo and fly fishing.

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Hellmtflies
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Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#1

Post by Hellmtflies »

Looks as though I'm not the only person completely discouraged in the growth of Boze Angeles.


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JerryG
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#2

Post by JerryG »

Hello Hellmtflies,
I miss seeing you back East. How about Wisdom, MT? Great little town with good fishing nearby. You can get access on private land if you ask locals. Been there many times, staying at the Nez Perce Motel & getting to know the owners (They may not be the current ones now.) Jerry

3creeks
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#3

Post by 3creeks »

Hellmtflies wrote:
01/15/22 11:55
Looks as though I'm not the only person completely discouraged in the growth of Boze Angeles.


Image
Maybe the fix is more simple than you think. I'll tell you what I'll do: You come to my house in LA and spend fishing season, and I'll spend fishing season in yours. Six months of ACTUALLY living in Los Angeles and I'm guessing that you might find that things are still better there. :D

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czkid
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#4

Post by czkid »

Back in the 60s I flew choppers out of Rapid City for the USAF. In those days Bozeman, and cities in Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho were full of wonderful "cow" towns. If I had my fishing gear with me, and a couple hours to spare, all I had to do was express a desire to fish and I was overwhelmed with invitations to come to this or that spot. Sadly those days are gone. Much of the lands have been purchased by part time residents with more money than sense,and the sporting public has been disenfranchised. A sad situation, and a great loss to ordinary "sports".

PYochim
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#5

Post by PYochim »

We're seeing an influx of people from urban areas. They are from Denver, Portland, San Francisco and Minneapolis. They are either retired or able to work from home. Most of them are not coming for the proximity to outdoor sports. They're escaping the increase in crime, cost of living and big city politics. What they are not getting is all of the conveniences and choices they get in a big city. Few high end restaurants, limited number of places to shop for food, clothing and other essentials. Bozeman has all of that. They're way ahead of us and I don't know if that is good or bad.

crkennedy1
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#6

Post by crkennedy1 »

It’s happening all over the West. I’ve watched my beautiful Utah get “Claifornicated”. A true shame, but as 3creeks identified, just spend a short time in a Hell-Hole like LA, and where you are now won’t seem so bad. We can either stay and fight to preserve the way of life we love, or give-in and search for a no-existent utopia. Perhaps someplace east of the Patagonia?

PYochim
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#7

Post by PYochim »

I might add that I moved to Sheridan for the same reason others are now. Add property and other taxes. Mine were cut by a significant percentage here.
Last edited by PYochim on 01/15/22 19:34, edited 1 time in total.

PT48
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#8

Post by PT48 »

As an overseas visitor to the USA, and Montana in particular, it was not lost on me. In 2014 Bozeman was a great little city but by 2018 it was starting to develop the type of ugliness associated with rampant expansion. We all seem to be manic about finding a bolt-hole for what lies ahead. Tasmania is no different.

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tapermaker
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#9

Post by tapermaker »

i hope to be an expat in costa rica by the time the next election comes around theres a level of discourse i have never seen before here ., and i am old enough to remember the sixties. time to go before they come and take me away . never really good at covering up my disgust,

Webfly
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#10

Post by Webfly »

PT48 wrote:
01/15/22 19:16
As an overseas visitor to the USA, and Montana in particular, it was not lost on me. In 2014 Bozeman was a great little city but by 2018 it was starting to develop the type of ugliness associated with rampant expansion. We all seem to be manic about finding a bolt-hole for what lies ahead. Tasmania is no different.
I saw it happening in Bozeman before the mortgage crisis in 2008, we were already calling it Boze Angeles. My friend that lives in Manhattan, MT drove me through miles of cookie cutter homes in 2006 and he did not know one person that lived in them. They were already selling out at that point…

Fishbamboorods
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#11

Post by Fishbamboorods »

Change is happening everywhere - some places growing and alot of places people moving away from.

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Hellmtflies
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#12

Post by Hellmtflies »

3creeks wrote:
01/15/22 13:10
Hellmtflies wrote:
01/15/22 11:55
Looks as though I'm not the only person completely discouraged in the growth of Boze Angeles.


Image
Maybe the fix is more simple than you think. I'll tell you what I'll do: You come to my house in LA and spend fishing season, and I'll spend fishing season in yours. Six months of ACTUALLY living in Los Angeles and I'm guessing that you might find that things are still better there. :D
I suspect you are correct 3creeks. But I am originally from N.J., which I consider third world country, so I know how bad it can be. But I didn't leave there to see Montana become that. Sad.

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creakycane
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#13

Post by creakycane »

All the places that are on fast growth spurts have similar characteristics, and yes, qualities that detract for the original reasons they draw. This is currently true of, for example, Asheville, in a way very similar to Bozeman. Plenty of regions around the country where the stampede has been going on for a much longer time - CO and FL in particular.

Are there alternatives? Sure - relocate to a depressed, former industrial town that no one relocates to, with a good trout stream that runs through town, and many, many small creeks. Year round fishing, mild winters. Little competition for spots on the river! Wild fish. Myriad hiking opportunities for casual to serious. Cable TV and amazon delivery. Get to know the local postmaster who is invariably a good sportsman. You won't see CA, FL or TX plates. You may be able to buy a small house for the price of many cars you see now in Bzmn. But, currently, nothing else to do. Maybe a hot spot in the future?

AlexP
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#14

Post by AlexP »

Hello,

What's the objective of this billboard? Intended or not, the message has a political tone that might appeal to some and disgust others within Bozeman. I am curious as to what's the goal of this message and the intended audience.

Tight Lines

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Hellmtflies
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#15

Post by Hellmtflies »

AlexP wrote:
01/16/22 10:10
Hello,

What's the objective of this billboard? Intended or not, the message has a political tone that might appeal to some and disgust others within Bozeman. I am curious as to what's the goal of this message and the intended audience.

Tight Lines
Regardless as to what side of the isle one is on, I suspect the message on the board is the simple notion of disgust as to what has and is occurring in this town called Bozeman. When we discovered the billboard, my wife was offended, I was in agreement with it. But neither one of us took a political view of it. Though to your inquiry, I suspect that the message comes from one who may have been here for a long time and seen the degradation of the area. But the thing is that the folks that have been here the longest are the folks that have sold off their ranches and farms to developers for tons of dollars. What did they think when the land was sold? What did they think a developer was going to do with the land? Raise cows? I think not. Anyway, it's all about greed pure and simple.

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truchaspike
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#16

Post by truchaspike »

Many Montana farming and ranching families struggled for generations before throwing in the towel. And when they finally sold out to the developers they did so with the greatest regret.

And it's hard to blame the new urban transplants for being attracted to a place like Bozeman - this town offers easy access to nature, and lots of big city amenities without very many big city problems.

What's happening in Bozeman and other places like it is complicated, more complicated than just "greed".

Srock
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#17

Post by Srock »

Reminds me of the old Yogi Berra saying something like, “ It used to be a good place, but now everyone goes there”. Such is the bane of good places.

Srock
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#18

Post by Srock »

I also think this has only gotten worse since covid. I own a small cabin in Northern Wisconsin for about 20 years. Back when I bought it, the town was quiet and not very crowded. In the last two years, it has become very crowded. Even if you want to camp many of the Forest campgrounds in the Michigan UP get full early. Not sure when this will change, if it will.

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Hellmtflies
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#19

Post by Hellmtflies »

Srock wrote:
01/16/22 13:10
Reminds me of the old Yogi Berra saying something like, “ It used to be a good place, but now everyone goes there”. Such is the bane of good places.
I think it went like this; Yogi- "It's so crowded no one goes there anymore." :)

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nativebrownie
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Re: Hmmmm... Guess I'm not alone in this.....

#20

Post by nativebrownie »

Sorta sad that you all are so bummed out on where you live - not the way to fly...
Feel lucky, just was talking to another player after a morning tennis group last Friday. Both of us laughed and said how lucky we were to live here - we listed many reasons, many... Great feeling to feel so comfortable with "others" and with so much to do that is just the way to live - at least for us...
Enjoy a large eastern metro city/suburbs - fits our "perspective" - and as all is fully "developed," the developers are paving over green fields elsewhere...

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