New Flies/New Materials

A place to discuss the collecting and tying of classic flies, the tyers who made them famous, the tools, materials and techniques they used as well as the waters they were designed for. While classic is generally used to describe old things, classic is also used in the sense of first class or in the highest form. Therefore a fully dressed Salmon Fly, or a Carrie Stevens Streamer are just as much classics as a Chernobyl Ant would be. Enjoy the forum.

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billems
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New Flies/New Materials

#1

Post by billems »

I've seen some flies via online videos that I'd like to tie--that is until they give you the list of needed materials.

I saw a very nice baetis style nymph on Fly Fish Food that looked like a real winner, though right now, I can't remember the name of it.

But all the materials were of a certain brand. Enrico Pugili fibers. Epoxy and Super Glue. Snow shoe rabbit dubbing, etc.

I haven't yet made the jump with the resins and the UV flashlights. All in all, it would be an investment north of $100 frogskins.

Maybe I'll offer to buy a dozen from the tyer. If the fly turns out to be a winner, THEN I'll buy the necessary stuff. But a lot of these

vids are designed to get you to buy more materials. Can't blame 'em, it's a tough business to get ahead with.

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Norm Frechette
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#2

Post by Norm Frechette »

i substitute for materials that come close enough to what is described in the original recipe if i dont have a specific brand

fish dont know branded materials anyway :rollin

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Caneghost
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#3

Post by Caneghost »

Indeed, much of the video stuff is a large For Sale sign. There are thousands of materials, many of them come and gone (you may even have some in your own stash from years back). If you consider what the hot, new thing is like and what it is touted to achieve, then substitution is usually not too difficult.
I stay away from all of the UV resin crap myself, as I honestly don't see it adding that much to a fly to justify the cost and the time and trouble.
...a wink of gold like the glint of sunlight on polished cane...

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ted patlen
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#4

Post by ted patlen »

After 2,00 years of binding materials onto, what accounts to an one inch long piece of steel, (not me, I'm old but not that old) I find it extremely difficult to acknowledge a "new" fly. The process may change a bit (uv adhesive versus varnish) but the fish have not evolved and still grab everything with their mouths.


"fish dont know branded materials anyway :rollin:" Hey Norm :) :)

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Hellmtflies
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#5

Post by Hellmtflies »

Norm Frechette wrote:
01/17/22 07:09
i substitute for materials that come close enough to what is described in the original recipe if i dont have a specific brand

fish dont know branded materials anyway :rollin
DITTO! :)

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Norm Frechette
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#6

Post by Norm Frechette »

ill substitute my swannundaze i have for d-rib or v-rib i dont have

basically the same stuff

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Eric Peper
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#7

Post by Eric Peper »

Fish don't know brandied materials . . . in fact, fish don't know any materials. Fish know food. When people ask what patterns I tie, I typically say, "None. I tie imitations of fish food." Look in my fly boxes, and you'll not find any standard or "named" patterns.

YMMV
A mountain is a fact -- a trout is a moment of beauty known only to men who seek them
Al McClane in his Introduction to The Practical Fly Fisherman . . . often erroneously attributed to Arnold Gingrich

thehersh
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#8

Post by thehersh »

Great repilies everyone.I love watching videos as much as anyone,more to see maybe a better way of doing a certain technique.Not so much the latest and greatest fly and materials.I tie some flies that i really never intend to fish with as a hobby aspect because they are cool to me.Some are just too delicate for the warmwater species i fish for 99% of the time.There are some great tiers all over this planet and some great ones on this board.I just like tying something that looks like what i believe the fish want and actually catching them.That will never change.I am quite guilty of going a little nuts in a fly shop and have the piles of stuff to prove it.Much of it will probably never be used.

Mistermike
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#9

Post by Mistermike »

For patterns with EP Fibers, consider Congo Hair from Fly Tyers Dungeon. It’s a very similar product at a fraction of the cost.

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Caneghost
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#10

Post by Caneghost »

I have a drawer full of Puglisi's Trigger Point Fibers and really like them, but they are very expensive. Luckily, I use them in small amounts for trout flies so a hank lasts a long time.

I really don't pay much attention to other people's patterns either. As the esteemed Mr. Peper stated, I tie flies that look like fish food. My goal is to imitate life, for I find that our heavily pressured wild trout often key on movement. Light reflections can give an impression of movement, as can barred hackles on a dry fly, but a little goes a long way.
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WiFlyFisher
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#11

Post by WiFlyFisher »

Eric Peper wrote:
01/17/22 15:33
Fish don't know brandied materials . . . in fact, fish don't know any materials. Fish know food. When people ask what patterns I tie, I typically say, "None. I tie imitations of fish food." Look in my fly boxes, and you'll not find any standard or "named" patterns.

YMMV
Whatya catch 'um on?

"A little gray bastard about so big'"


John

ted patlen
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#12

Post by ted patlen »

I guess this is a camouflaged thread about presentation. I strongly agree , "It's not the Mazeradi, but how you drive it."

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DrLogik
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#13

Post by DrLogik »

Ted hit the nail on the head. I would add that if you haven't read Datus Proper's "What the Trout Said", you might read that. It changed my perspective on tying flies. I regressed back to the days when I was a young teenager and didn't have many materials, tools or a pattern book.

I'm with Eric Peper, fish eat food, not a brand. Datus Proper had it right.

Then again, maybe I should throw some materials that really clash onto a hook and call it the "Summafeech". :lol

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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#14

Post by PYochim »

Who needs brand name dubbing when they have dogs. The dogs were a big help during my 5 day home incarceration in a lot of ways. Lois didn't mind me harvesting underfur but Nikki wasn't too happy even though I used a brush.

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upstate
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#15

Post by upstate »

I guess if you come right down to it new materials of which 99% are synthetic are really just substitutes for the real thing. Eventually I feel that as society leans to the greener side of things they will probably go the way of the plastic bag. Any body got any trash bags they could spare? I like to put my time into finding the older type of natural materials. The hunt is fun and the tying more rewarding to me.

Tom

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Silver Doctor
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#16

Post by Silver Doctor »

My parents ran a small fly tying service for years in the 50's/60's, There were no materials suppliers in our part of the world so the bulk of materials was gathered in the fall hunting upland and small game. Only outside purchases were hooks, thread, floss, and wool. The number of patterns was also much smaller maybe 40 assorted dries wets and streamers.

Bacchus_2
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#17

Post by Bacchus_2 »

I haven’t been tying as long as a lot of the folks here, but what I have learned is that the rule of thumb - “whatever floats your boat” - generally applies to tying. How else can you explain impressionistic patterns or attractor patterns vs realistic ones?

The characteristics matter more than the actual brand/materials for most ties, IMO. There are some effects that are material specific - such as UV dubbing or the profile on a baitfish pattern - but for most fish food, I try to tie flies that approximate a pattern, not replicate it, which I think matters on the heavily pressured waters I tend to fish.

Fish aren’t stupid and often eat out of curiosity, so I believe showing them something they haven’t seen and been hooked by a dozen times before might give me a chance!

Best of luck everyone.

Don
There are times, I think, when a trout angler must prize what he catches with his eyes as much as what he firmly hooks. - H. Middleton

billems
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#18

Post by billems »

DrLogik wrote:
01/19/22 11:35
Ted hit the nail on the head. I would add that if you haven't read Datus Proper's "What the Trout Said", you might read that. It changed my perspective on tying flies. I regressed back to the days when I was a young teenager and didn't have many materials, tools or a pattern book.

I'm with Eric Peper, fish eat food, not a brand. Datus Proper had it right.

Then again, maybe I should throw some materials that really clash onto a hook and call it the "Summafeech". :lol
"What the Trout Said" is a terrific, informative book. His writing is excellent, too.

redietz
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Re: New Flies/New Materials

#19

Post by redietz »

Bacchus_2 wrote:
01/22/22 10:16
Fish aren’t stupid
Actually, they are.

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