Steenrod tied Hendrickson

[Woodlakejag]

Here’s a Hendrickson tied by Roy Steenrod. I’ve already plastered this all over social media, so I apologize in advance for those that have already seen it.
Reposting here for forum members that aren’t on FB.


And a Quill Gordon by Steenrod

[bearbutt]

Great flies, and very nice photos too--thank you!

bb

[PYochim]

Absolutely beautiful.

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

Not being a Facebooker, I'm seeing these great looking flies on a vintage Edwards cor the first time Thanks for sharing!

[Flykuni3]

Fantastic, thanks.

[gt05254]

Cool flies, cool photos! Thanks for sharing,
Gary

[ibookje]

What blew my mind was that there is the remains of a turtle knot behind the hook eye. Many debated about the reason for the 'clean neck'. Was it to accommodate the turle knot or for a better balance of the fly on the water?

This is the first time I see proof of use of the turle knot on a fly tied by a Catskill tier from the era of Gordon.

[Woodlakejag]

I was surprised to see that as well because it's barely visible without magnification.
I don't know much about early leaders so I started searching for vintage leaders on Ebay. Turns out, a lot of the earlier nylon leaders were dark brown or black like this and I think they date from the late 1930s-40s.

[cwfly]

George, The “E.[dward] R.[ingwood] Hewitt Process” “’Intrinsic Silkworm Gut Leaders,” sold through William Mills & Son, “Sole Agents” are very dark brown.
Charlie

[Woodlakejag]

Thanks Charlie, sounds like it could be gut as well.

[Caneghost]

Very nice but I am curious, how do you know they are truly Steenrod ties? I was helping out at CFFCM yesterday and in discussing cataloging flies realized how difficult that task could be should they not have been tagged at donation.

[slw]

I've been looking at these two flies for a couple days now and wondering about them. They seem different enough from each other in terms of style to have been tied by different tiers. I can understand that the difference in body length to hook shank length could be due to the availability of a particular hook, but the wings, hackle and heads are noticably different.

Did Steenrod change his tying methods or style over time?

[Woodlakejag]

Good questions. Provenance is always an interesting topic and especially with vintage flies. Unless you watch someone tie a fly, there’s almost always going to be questions of authenticity.

The person I bought these flies from knew Roy Steenrod and his uncle worked as a game warden with Roy Steenrod. I had several conversations with the seller before purchasing and verified details of his stories through multiple other sources. I know others who met with this seller in person and came away with the opinion that what he is selling is authentic. Many of his flies have been “authenticated” by Dave Catizone, so that helps in my opinion.

I agree that these two flies are different. I don’t know why, maybe his style changed through the years or maybe he just tied these patterns differently (I suspect the latter).
I will say that the very early Catskill flies by Steenrod, Christian, Gordon, etc, are not as “perfect” in proportion and style as some would assume. They tied flies to catch fish and there was greater variation in flies of the same pattern. Steenrod was not a commercial tyer.

More standardized and “perfect” Catskill dry flies developed with Rube Cross, the Dettes and the Darbees.

George

[ted patlen]

It has been a topic for years that flies tied by Cross, during the morning were quite different from the afternoon bunch.

[RymanType]

Thanks for sharing here as I am not a FB account holder either. Beautiful works of art.
What color hackle does it appear on the quill Gordon? Seems like a honey Dun color to me?

[Woodlakejag]

Very hard to tell but against a white background the tail hackle appears light brown and the body hackle very light olive.

[upstate]

Good questions. Provenance is always an interesting topic and especially with vintage flies. Unless you watch someone tie a fly, there’s almost always going to be questions of authenticity.

The person I bought these flies from knew Roy Steenrod and his uncle worked as a game warden with Roy Steenrod. I had several conversations with the seller before purchasing and verified details of his stories through multiple other sources. I know others who met with this seller in person and came away with the opinion that what he is selling is authentic. Many of his flies have been “authenticated” by Dave Catizone, so that helps in my opinion.

I agree that these two flies are different. I don’t know why, maybe his style changed through the years or maybe he just tied these patterns differently (I suspect the latter).
I will say that the very early Catskill flies by Steenrod, Christian, Gordon, etc, are not as “perfect” in proportion and style as some would assume. They tied flies to catch fish and there was greater variation in flies of the same pattern. Steenrod was not a commercial tyer.

More standardized and “perfect” Catskill dry flies developed with Rube Cross, the Dettes and the Darbees.

George

were either of these flies certified by Dave Catizone?

[Woodlakejag]

No they weren’t, but several flies from the same collection were, including a very similar Hendrickson and Quill Gordon tied by Steenrod.

[bearbutt]

The person I bought these flies from knew Roy Steenrod and his uncle worked as a game warden with Roy Steenrod. I had several conversations with the seller before purchasing and verified details of his stories through multiple other sources. I know others who met with this seller in person and came away with the opinion that what he is selling is authentic. Many of his flies have been “authenticated” by Dave Catizone, so that helps in my opinion.

If you're referencing the Tom Yager collection as the source of these flies, I'm inclined to agree with you: various well-documented statements back up the origins of various flies by Herm Christian, Ed Hewitt, Roy Steenrod, and the Dettes. Not sure if you have a letter Tom wrote about the flies? The provenance is probably as good as you can find, outside of finding the flies in an envelope with a signed letter by Steenrod himself.

Of course, with flies, the templates for authenticity are rarely perfect. There are for me two main issues when trying to ascribe authenticity: 1) the provenance of the flies--to which I give the most weight. Who owned them, and how did they arrive in the hands of the present owner? And 2) The flies themselves, and how well they correspond to known examples by the same tier. This requires a lot of legwork and a big archive of flies and images--. Eventually, a third category might be useful: forensics. Hackle DNA testing, and stuff like that--which would cost far more than the flies are worth. I doubt we will get to this category anytime soon.

This said, I have no reason to question the authenticity of George's flies--the provenance is excellent, and the flies match closely known examples.

bb

[Caneghost]

I met Dave Catizone on Saturday and it was he in fact that made the point I wrote about above, of there being significant difficulties in determining the origin of un-marked flies in the museum archives.

In "Tying Catskill Style Dry Flies, Mike Valla showed photos of Steenrod ties and noted how his woodduck wings were often canted forward as in the Quill Gordon above. He also stated that not all Steenrod flies displayed the canted forward wing.

Thankfully there are a few who have studied our great, historic tyers and can recognize minute details of style or technique that give clues as to the departed tyer's identity. An interesting thread.