The Granger First Era rod in the middle--the DeLuxe

[luredaddy]

Always great to hear from you, John. We go back quite a few years, don't we?

Scott

LAUGHING !!! Yes, quite a few years !! You were always a pleasure to talk to, a fountain of information, and a pleasure to deal with !! John

[luredaddy]

Always great to hear from you, John. We go back quite a few years, don't we?

Scott

LAUGHING !!! Yes, quite a few years !! You were always a pleasure to talk to, a fountain of information, and a pleasure to deal with !! John

[Flyman615]

Thanks again, John.

The feeling is certainly mutual!

Best wishes and be well,

Scott

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

Finally, here's a very rare 8 1/2 ft. "Light Trout" DeLuxe made, sold and used in an era dominated by much longer rods. It weighs but
4.26 oz. and has those beautiful 15/10 'waisted' ferrules. The second tip was replicated by my pal, Scott Whitman, who even found the correct male ferrule and 1915 Pat. tip top. THANKS, Scott!!


I hope you enjoy these century-old Grangers and perhaps others will surface!

Scott Z.

Well, another has surfaced! I just picked up what I believe is a circa 1921 Granger "Light Trout" Deluxe 8 1/2' rod with 15/10 ferrules. To my eye, the ferrules are W&M replacements born out by the lack of waist, sharper points on the ferrule welt and lack of patina on the ferrule wraps. One tip is full length, while the other is approximately 1" short. The original mid is about 6" short, but the rod came with a second full length mid. I haven't mic'ed them to see if the taper is the same, but suspect that the full-length mid is likely out of the W&M shop.

The very dark varnish makes if very difficult to see what the colors of the original wraps were, so I believe that this red varnish was likely not red when applied, but is due to aging of the varnish. I know that this may go against what has been previously stated, but again, to my eye, the varnish coloring seems consistent on and off the wraps and I have a hard time believing that Granger would have tried to hide such a striking signature wrap.

I came to the 1921 date by observing that this rod has what has been referred to as pre-first era reel seat ("THE" next line "GRANGER ROD" next line "DENVER" with the knurling against the cork and lack of model designation. Brian's Powell's excellent www.finecane.com site shows a different reel seat on the rods shown in the pre-1921 advertisements. Have any Granger rods with this reel seat ever surfaced?








The rod is obviously not pristine like others in this thread, but I am happy to have acquired an elusive century-old Granger rod likely built by the man himself!

The Granger Gods are working in my favor as I've also picked up a Victory GV9050 with a unique long grip and a gold-wrapped Special GS8642 recently.

Cheers,
Joe

Chris just asked if the guides were English twist, which I had not noticed. One guide on the short mid and all on the replacement mid are standard twist. They are also of a heavier gauge. With so many guides on these tips, this rod must be very easy to load.

[Flyman615]

Joe:

As you know, The Granger Rod was a Second Era Granger rod and was produced beginning in about 1920 and through 1926. There were several major changes to the Granger rod design/details including non-waisted, drwan n/s ferrules and a simpler, lighter s/b reel seat.

That said, I believe the reel seat on your Second Era rod to perhaps be 'left over' from the First Era and used until the "new", re-designed Second Era seat took over, so to speak. Also, the full Wells grip also appeared occasionally on the Second Era Grangers.

I have to disagree with you a bit on the varnish. Again, I believe a change was made--away from the "red or violin" varnish during the transition to the Second Era rod designs.

Just my opinion.

Scott Z.

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

Scott:

Thank you for jumping into this conversation. I'm not sure what you mean by The Granger Rod being Second Era. If you're stating that my rod is a so-called Second Era rod, then you are aware (or most likely even own) examples of the First Era with the reel seat shown in the 1920 advertisements? Would that make your rod that started this thread a Third Era since it has a reel seat introduced after that on my rod? I did quite a bit of searching but must have missed the updated "new" First Era rod postings. It's okay to disagree, I'm simply stating my opinion based upon two "red" Grangers, one being at least 25 years older than the other. All good.

Cheers,
Joe

[Flyman615]

Joe:

"THE GRANGER ROD" is a Second Era Granger model. It differs from the First Era rods in several respects including most often a second type of s/b n/s reel seat; re-designed, drawn n/s ferrules; a swelled butt and completely different tapers. (Not to mention the full Wells grip option.)

Your rod's reel seat is, however, the First Era design with wide band but evidently marked for The Granger Rod; serrated grip check, and separate butt cap. That said, it doesn't make your rod a First Era example for the reason I stated in my first post here. Besides which, "The Granger Rod" is not a First Era model.

Sorry if I've confused you!

Scott

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

Hi Scott:

Sorry, but I'm still confused. Do you believe that this is a Second Era rod? What is it that makes you believe that my rod is a Second Era rod?

I believe that it is a First Era Deluxe grade, and that it was built before the rod you purchased from Hoagy and opened this thread as First Era Deluxe. Are we at least in agreement on that?

The ferrules have been replaced, so we can't use them to help date this rod. The rod has the reel seat that was installed on all grades of the earliest Granger's (unless the sources that I've been using for my research are wrong, which could be the case) - pre-naming of the grade on the reel seat between the knurling. For example, the first rod in this collection https://www.finecane.com/gg-1st-era/ is referred to as a 9050 Special First Era and has the same reel seat. Are there photos on this forum of an earlier Granger reel seat?

Unless there are examples of rods with the reel seat shown in the ads dated 1920, which would then be First Era, and then all rods with the reel seat such as mine, and including mine, would be considered first era, would they not?

I didn't mean to imply that this was a model "The Granger Rod" because it has "The Granger Rod" on the reel seat as all grades of this era used this same reel seat. Perhaps my misuse of that has us thinking different eras? Thanks again for helping me identify what I have.

Cheers,
Joe

[Flyman615]

Well, Joe...let me try one more time to be clearer. Your rod's reel seat is marked for "THE GRANGER ROD" which is a Second Era model...period. That said, the Second Era 'THE GRANGER ROD' and the First Era 'DELUXE' were wrapped similarly. (Later that general wrap pattern became the FAVORITE.)

If your rod was a First Era DELUXE, IT WOULD BE MARKED 'GRANGER DELUXE' between upper knurlings on the reel seat. It isn't.

Your rod has a First Era-style reel seat which is not unfeasible during the transition between eras. Your rod also appears to have a swelled butt (hard to tell for sure), again indicative of Second Era rods, NOT First Era rods, as is the full Wells grip.

Perhaps if you can obtain a copy of Michael Sinclair's seminal book on Grangers, it may help you better understand the characteristics of the rod you have. Just a thought...

Scott Z.

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

Scott:

I guess that we'll just have to agree to disagree.

This post viewtopic.php?p=865895&hilit=granger#p865895 references two lower grade rods - Specials (?) with the same reel seat (including "THE GRANGER ROD DENVER" marking) and grip as my rod, which does NOT have a swelled butt in front of the grip. There is consensus, including from you, that these are rare "First Era" rods.

Since my rod has English twist guides, I believe that my rod is an earlier example (perhaps the earliest seen to date, who knows?) rod that has had ferrules replaced. Why would Granger use earlier twist guides on a later rod? I had the book and moved it along. It is a great book, but as you know, much more information has surfaced since its printing, including the rod which we are currently discussing.

Thanks again for all of your contributions and excellent photos. I look forward to seeing more.

Cheers,
Joe

[Flyman615]

Hey Joe:

Guess what? I think you're right after all!

Like a dummy, I didn't check my earliest First Era SPECIAL. Sure enough, the reel seat is marked like yours, THE GRANGER ROD-DENVER. And, I forgot, it's got reverse twist (English) snake guides. (Also, it has longer, waisted ferrules.)

Congratulations!

Joe: 1
Scott: 0

[NewUtahCaneAngler]

Thanks Scott!

I thought that I may have been missing something, but I am pleased to see you agree because most of how I came to my thesis was through the learning I achieved by studying your posts and great photos. I'm not keeping score and we all win when another early Granger is found!

So no rods with the reel seat from the earliest advertisements have surfaced yet?

Cheers,
Joe

[adkfan]

There have been no examples of the reel seat as drawn in the earliest ads to my knowledge

[Flykuni3]

Great thread with incredible info -- and give and take. This is how the world should work, eh? Proud to own and fish the Granger rod, two early Specials and a Goodwin.

[Flyman615]

It also should be noted that there are probably only about a dozen of the very "earliest" Granger First Era rods (circa 1918) known to still exist. I remember when Michael Sinclair discovered the first one just a few years back.

And I found mine (9 1/2 ft. 3/2 Special) shortly thereafter. They really are something 'special' and very modern in design considering they are over 100 years old!


Scott Z.

[adkfan]

Here’s my 2…..

[red 1]

This is a first era reel seat? I know nothing about Grangers. Rod always felt like 1940 ish vintage. Think I will have to go back and look at Grainger threads.

[adkfan]

That isnt a first era reel seat

[red 1]

Thanks adkfan.

[Bloodhound]

Beautiful and so cool old school class! Thank you