Sticky silk line

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jimlucey
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Re: Sticky silk line

#21

Post by jimlucey »

it occurs to me .... has anyone reached out to the folks at phoenix about this subject ? they were quite helpful to me on another occasion when i was trying to identify a line i had .

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Short Tip
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Re: Sticky silk line

#22

Post by Short Tip »

jimlucey wrote:
06/20/22 06:29
it occurs to me .... has anyone reached out to the folks at phoenix about this subject ? they were quite helpful to me on another occasion when i was trying to identify a line i had .
No, but I will try to do that.

PK

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kevinhaney1
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Re: Sticky silk line

#23

Post by kevinhaney1 »

This is what I love about this forum. All these experienced people working together to solve a problem.

Kevin
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BigTJ
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Re: Sticky silk line

#24

Post by BigTJ »

There is a very simple solution. Don’t leave a silk fly line in its original packaging for a couple decades. As soon as you get it spool it into loose coils and put otter butter on it. Keep it in loose coils hung on a coat rack in a closet that is cracked open to allow fresh air. Use one of those yarn wonders from Amazon or a craft shop that makes 2+ ft coils. The line will always be nice and supple with simple care.

John

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oddsnrods
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Re: Sticky silk line

#25

Post by oddsnrods »

I thought that I had lavished enough care over the years on my mere green Phoenix line- removing from it from the reel on the drive home, storing loose during the winter, following care instructions and fishing it regularly.

The line however has now darkened, to almost a light brown and has become tacky to the touch, rather than sticky over its length. If left for any time with loose coils touching on the line winder (see picture) it now sticks with flat spots on the finish when pulled apart.

So..I have been following this thread with interest. I would also like to restore the line 'cuticle' as mentioned in an earlier post, however the 'Copal- linseed varnish' mentioned is not available (or known of) at my local art supplies store.

Having painted in oils I am familiar with Japan Drier, I also like the idea of rubbing the line down with turpentine- to flatten out the lumps and bumps from sticking.

Would rubbing the line down first with turpentine to clear the surface 'gunk', then leaving in the sun (loosely coiled, turning over in the sun..) for a few days, then applying the Japan Dryer 0r if I can find it the Copal Varnish, be the best route?

Not being familiar with Otter Butter, although it sounds preferable to the Musilin,it sound like a good 'conditioner' possibly helping it to stay on the water surface, but may just go over the surface of the aforementioned small lumps and bumps rather than a treatment for smoothing out the line.

Malcolm



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Short Tip
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Re: Sticky silk line

#26

Post by Short Tip »

BigTJ wrote:
06/20/22 11:27
There is a very simple solution. Don’t leave a silk fly line in its original packaging for a couple decades. As soon as you get it spool it into loose coils and put otter butter on it. Keep it in loose coils hung on a coat rack in a closet that is cracked open to allow fresh air. Use one of those yarn wonders from Amazon or a craft shop that makes 2+ ft coils. The line will always be nice and supple with simple care.

John
I think that's right. Though, as the owner of a shelf full of NIB silk lines approximately 10-15 years old, I note that some are gunky and some are dry and supple. This applies to both the Thebault and the Phoenix.
oddsnrods wrote:
06/20/22 13:36


Having painted in oils I am familiar with Japan Drier, I also like the idea of rubbing the line down with turpentine- to flatten out the lumps and bumps from sticking.

Would rubbing the line down first with turpentine to clear the surface 'gunk', then leaving in the sun (loosely coiled, turning over in the sun..) for a few days, then applying the Japan Dryer 0r if I can find it the Copal Varnish, be the best route?

Not being familiar with Otter Butter, although it sounds preferable to the Musilin,it sound like a good 'conditioner' possibly helping it to stay on the water surface, but may just go over the surface of the aforementioned small lumps and bumps rather than a treatment for smoothing out the line.

Malcolm



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I think that would be a good procedure. The dressing, liberally and repeated applied, does do a lot! Otter Butter is great, Red Mucilin is fine I think, and I've been getting good results from the Thebault dressing, especially since I have several dozen big shoe polish tins of it.

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oddsnrods
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Re: Sticky silk line

#27

Post by oddsnrods »

Thank you for the reply. Japan Drier or Copal Varnish (if I can find it) ? Also to stretch the line out taught, or pull it through the various cloths of turpentine/ finish.
I have some artist cold pressed linseed oil, any use for this in the process...?
Finally, regular or artists turpentine?

Malcolm

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Re: Sticky silk line

#28

Post by Short Tip »

oddsnrods wrote:
06/20/22 16:09
Thank you for the reply. Japan Drier or Copal Varnish (if I can find it) ? Also to stretch the line out taught, or pull it through the various cloths of turpentine/ finish.
I have some artist cold pressed linseed oil, any use for this in the process...?
Finally, regular or artists turpentine?

Malcolm
This is just my method, others may differ and I am still in the experimental phase.

Japan drier. I haven't done any re-varnishing and I don't think I'd put new varnish over sticky. Linseed oil takes forever to dry, if it isn't "boiled" linseed oil, it may never dry.

My current method, which seems to be working but is subject to change:

1) Bath in a solution of baking soda and warm water. Roughly 1/4 cup soda to a gallon of water. Loose coils, 5 or 10 minutes only, then a thorough rinse. This seems to get the top layer of ooze off, without stripping the line completely.

2) Stretch line out in backyard between sawhorses. I put a few screws in the horses so I can zigzag the line back and forth, takes up less room.

3) After a day or two of drying, wipe down well with turpentine, mineral spirits or 3M Adhesive Cleaner. All seem to work, they remove the gunk and soften the uneven spots. Rub down with microfiber rag and repeat until line feels smooth. You will get some residue off.

4) Wipe down with Japan drier. I have been doing 2 or 3 passes, with an hour or so between. Use plenty.

5) Let dry outdoors several more days.

6) Grease down with Otter Butter or similar. Don't spare it. The Thebault instructions say to do this 5 times (!)

That should give you a fishable line! Others please chime in.

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kevinhaney1
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Re: Sticky silk line

#29

Post by kevinhaney1 »

1) Bath in a solution of baking soda and warm water. Roughly 1/4 cup soda to a gallon of water. Loose coils, 5 or 10 minutes only, then a thorough rinse. This seems to get the top layer of ooze off, without stripping the line completely.
I think you need to be careful here, because when I tried it about the same length of time, it took all of the finish off of the line.

Kevin
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jimlucey
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Re: Sticky silk line

#30

Post by jimlucey »

i purchased a kingfisher line that was allegedly a dt salmon line . when i got it (ebay ) it was sticky to the point of being " gunky " . so , i followed " overmywaders .com " instructions per the baking soda . i would say what i did took the line down to a bare silk line . turned out the line was only 50' and i returned it , os i never followed up with the rest of russ' instructions to see how it turned out . the instructions were for 1/3 box baking / 1 gal. water , 20 minutes

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Short Tip
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Re: Sticky silk line

#31

Post by Short Tip »

kevinhaney1 wrote:
06/20/22 17:28
1) Bath in a solution of baking soda and warm water. Roughly 1/4 cup soda to a gallon of water. Loose coils, 5 or 10 minutes only, then a thorough rinse. This seems to get the top layer of ooze off, without stripping the line completely.
I think you need to be careful here, because when I tried it about the same length of time, it took all of the finish off of the line.

Kevin
Good to know. Not sure why it has worked for me, I will measure and time more carefully next time and see what I get.

PK

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Re: Sticky silk line

#32

Post by narcodog »

Otter Butter is not a line conditioner, you can apply as many coats as you want and it will not penetrate the varnished. It's a floatant, just working the OB back and forth will soften the line just because your manipulating it.

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chsparkman
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Re: Sticky silk line

#33

Post by chsparkman »

I bought a salmon line from Paul (Short Tip) back in March. I soaked it in baking soda and water for about 20 minutes and a lot of junk came off onto the rag when I wiped it off. It seems to still have a coating though. After it dried for a day or so I rubbed it down with Mucilin. It casts just fine. I'm taking it with me to Alaska in September to hopefully catch some silvers on it.
...as for us we pin our faith and fealty to the silk-wound PENTAGONAL rod cunningly yet simply devised of its FIVE subtle, individual triangular strips of cane throughout...

Holden, George Parker. (modified by me) Idyl of the Split Bamboo

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Re: Sticky silk line

#34

Post by dqatar »

Short tip, can you be a little more Pacific or a basic outline About how the Japan Drier works, on the silk fly line, and is this process only used for the Stickey Silk fly line.

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Re: Sticky silk line

#35

Post by narcodog »

chsparkman wrote:
06/21/22 18:46
I bought a salmon line from Paul (Short Tip) back in March. I soaked it in baking soda and water for about 20 minutes and a lot of junk came off onto the rag when I wiped it off. It seems to still have a coating though. After it dried for a day or so I rubbed it down with Mucilin. It casts just fine. I'm taking it with me to Alaska in September to hopefully catch some silvers on it.
I would suggest that you fish that line before you head out. If you soaked for 20 min's you have removed more than the gunk. Just sayin.

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chsparkman
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Re: Sticky silk line

#36

Post by chsparkman »

You could be right narcodog...we'll see what happens.
...as for us we pin our faith and fealty to the silk-wound PENTAGONAL rod cunningly yet simply devised of its FIVE subtle, individual triangular strips of cane throughout...

Holden, George Parker. (modified by me) Idyl of the Split Bamboo

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Short Tip
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Re: Sticky silk line

#37

Post by Short Tip »

dqatar wrote:
06/22/22 12:57
Short tip, can you be a little more Pacific or a basic outline About how the Japan Drier works, on the silk fly line, and is this process only used for the Stickey Silk fly line.
The Japan drier is a curing accelerant for varnish and oil based finishes. It was suggested to me by others. It seems to enable the softened varnish to re-harden, with the aid of UV light and a little time.

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BigTJ
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Re: Sticky silk line

#38

Post by BigTJ »

chsparkman wrote:
06/23/22 09:53
You could be right narcodog...we'll see what happens.
Look at your line under magnification. If you see braid coming through the finish is too thin and you will likely damage the silk.

Agree with other 20 min soak was likely too much but hard to be sure without looking at the line. Better to know now, so you can re strip it completely and refinish it, if required.

John
Last edited by BigTJ on 06/23/22 22:36, edited 1 time in total.

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chsparkman
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Re: Sticky silk line

#39

Post by chsparkman »

Geez guys thanks for caring. I checked the line and there is still a coat of varnish covering the silk. I'm taking it fishing.
...as for us we pin our faith and fealty to the silk-wound PENTAGONAL rod cunningly yet simply devised of its FIVE subtle, individual triangular strips of cane throughout...

Holden, George Parker. (modified by me) Idyl of the Split Bamboo

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BigTJ
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Re: Sticky silk line

#40

Post by BigTJ »

I don’t actually care what you do with your line I just know soaking a silk fly line in baking soda and water for 20 mins is a good way to ruin the finish. Those are basic instructions for taking the varnish off.

John

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