Using ProKote

[Phil13]

I’m using ProKote on my guide wraps. Any helpful suggestions on its use?


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[BigTJ]

A few things I've learned on epoxy, with the caveat I use thread master light and I assume ProKote is like the other commercial rod epoxies out there:

1. Warm it up with a space heater or heat lamp before mixing and make sure your room is 70 F or warmer.
2. Thin it 10-15% with denatured alcohol.
4. Mix it with a rotating mixer like the ones you can get from Mudhole. A toothpick will create a ton of air bubbles you don't want.
4. Pour it immediately onto tinfoil that increases pot life by a lot like 20 mins
5. Apply finish, don't brush it on. You are managing a volume of finish putting it in place. Too much finish causes sags. Too little you will need too many coats. It take practice but think of applying and managing finish volume. You will learn from experience what that volume is. You will dab the right amount and spread it around and let the finish level it out rather than painstakingly try to paint it on which is a mistake, time consuming, and doesn't usually lead to good results (at least not for me).
6. Use a heat source on every wrap, like the side of a lighter flame or alcohol lamp, right after finishing. Make it fast - run the source back and fort for 10 seconds while spinning the rod by hand then move on after confirming everything looks good. Do not skip this step otherwise you will have bubbles and sags.
7. Never, ever put the epoxy on a rod on a rotating rod drier. Apply it to the blank in a rack. It will get rotated frequently enough as you are doing the wraps. Once you are finished with applying the epoxy, give it another 10 mins rotating every few mins Then you can put it in the rotator. The issue as far as I can figure it out is that when the finish first goes on and is runny the non-concentric rotation causes a lumpy finish. At least I've never gotten a satisfactory finish by using the rotator when applying finish.
8. The first coat saturate the wraps then wipe off the excess with a fingered glove. After drying cut off any thread bumps with a razor blade.
9. Apply two more thin coats. More than that you will get too much build up.
10. Practice a lot and it will get easy and your finish will be something others will drool over.

Good luck,

-John

[Phil13]

John,
Thank you for the in-depth explanation and process. I appreciate it and will use the information.
Phil


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[Phil13]

My second use of the product was a disaster. Did not cure after 4 days in heated room. I’m sure it was my poor usage, but it’s much more sensitive to mix and temperature than anything I have ever used.
Switching over to Threadmaster lite and will practice with that on a dowel.
Now to clean the goop off the guides…

Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you wanted.


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[BigTJ]

Been there - we all have - like your attitude it’s what it takes to get the results you want.

Cheers,

John

[Phil13]

Been there - we all have - like your attitude it’s what it takes to get the results you want.

Cheers,

John

Thank you.


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[DonT]

if you are going to be doing this much it would be good to buy a little digital scale. They are dirt cheap these days. I weigh out all my two part epoxies for just the reason you ran into.

[Phil13]

Thanks Don. I do have a digital scale: however the directions for ProKote say to use volume measure only. I think that was where I errored with the measured syringes I used. It was very difficult for me to push on the syringes with any accuracy.


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[Recidivist13]

Your syringes are probably the issue. Are you using pharmacy ones or proper rod building ones? I had real issues on my last build using Threadmaster lite with it staying tacky, it was getting silicone contamination from syringes. Once got right syringes, it worked a treat. Hope it helps, do a test on a bit of scrap first to see if it fixes the issue.

[Phil13]

I only bought the ProKote supplied syringes with their product. Just the small two syringe product.
I do think my measurement with them was off.
May just go back to spar varnish coating the wraps.


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[BigTJ]

I’ve used plastic spoons to measure out rodmaking epoxy for 20 years and have no reason to change. Put the handles on a roll of masking tape, fill to the brim, then mix.

John

[henkverhaar]

'Normal' epoxies are quite tolerant of mixing ratios (the properties of the cured product _will_ vary with the mixing ratio, but they will cure nonetheless). 'Flex coat' type epoxies contain a significant amount of plasticizer in the hardener, and therefore are much more finicky towards mixing ratio -- too little hardener, and the result remains tacky due to the presence of unreacted resin, too much hardener, and the result remains tacky due to the presence of excess plasticizer. For rod finishing (guide coating) epoxies, weighing the amounts of resin and hardener to meet the mfx specifications, and mixing in clean, 'nonreactive' containers is highly advisable. I used to mix my Flex Coat in small glass bowls (Ikea mini bowls)...

But yes, especially for bamboo rods, I strongly prefer spar varnish for thread finishing. And no high builds - I want to see the thread wraps ;-) Varnish is there to lock the threads in place and protect them from water, not to add additional weight by building a football on top of that.

[penta-spey]

Thread Master Lite seems to be quite easy to achieve good results with. I guess tolerant of non-precise measurement. For mixing one can simply count drops as they roll off the end of a tooth pick dipped in the hardener and a different toothpick dipped in the resin. I've mixed as little 6 drops (3 of each hardener and resin) with no issues.
Although some consider epoxy on a bamboo rod an abomination I disagree. Using a first application of the right epoxy on bare thread wraps provides a robust connection that will likely never result in loose guides; especially import on big rods and those that might see more dramatic weather, snow, rain, ice on the guides, like spey rods used for steelheading IMO.
A thin first coat of light epoxy with excess removed then later varnish over top can result in a low build .... no footballs,

[BigTJ]

But yes, especially for bamboo rods, I strongly prefer spar varnish for thread finishing. And no high builds - I want to see the thread wraps ;-) Varnish is there to lock the threads in place and protect them from water, not to add additional weight by building a football on top of that.

It’s pretty easy to wipe off the excess epoxy with a gloved finger on the first coat. See post #2 above. That way you get the strength benefits without altering the look. Footballs are completely avoidable too just use thinner epoxy and manage the amount going on.

[DonT]

Although some consider epoxy on a bamboo rod an abomination I disagree. Using a first application of the right epoxy on bare thread wraps provides a robust connection that will likely never result in loose guides; especially import on big rods and those that might see more dramatic weather, snow, rain, ice on the guides, like spey rods used for steelheading IMO.
A thin first coat of light epoxy with excess removed then later varnish over top can result in a low build .... no footballs,

Agree with both.

[BigTJ]

I forgot to mention that I’ve found that since I started using one of those CRB rotating epoxy mixers I’ve never had the finish stay sticky. So it may be that getting a really thorough mix is nearly as important as getting the ratio right. In other words you may get the ratio right but because it’s not mixed well enough the epoxy can’t cross link and the reaction is incomplete. I also find I get far fewer air bubbles in the mix. So highly recommend them.

John

[henkverhaar]

I forgot to mention that I’ve found that since I started using one of those CRB rotating epoxy mixers I’ve never had the finish stay sticky. So it may be that getting a really thorough mix is nearly as important as getting the ratio right.

Absolutely ;-)

[DonT]

I should have added that, if you are going to weigh out epoxies, be aware that the resin is more dense than the hardener for most systems, so to get equal volumes you need to weigh about 1.2X more resin. This is true for Flex Coat, Brampton 20/20, and UHU 300+, which are the ones I use the most.

[Phil13]

I should have added that, if you are going to weigh out epoxies, be aware that the resin is more dense than the hardener for most systems, so to get equal volumes you need to weigh about 1.2X more resin. This is true for Flex Coat, Brampton 20/20, and UHU 300+, which are the ones I use the most.

Just to clarify for me, the weight ratio would be 1.2:1
resin to hardener for the epoxies listed?


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[DonT]

Yep, that's it.