Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
Moderator: TheMontyMan
Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#1I am wondering if anyone can give me any info, stories or value on a rood and reel combination that I have.
It is a Payne 98L 7' & 1 7/8 oz. that is in good working condition. I was told that when it is assembled there is a very subtle "Set"...but I can't see it. I do also have a second tip but that one is broker at the tip and is split around the third eyelet down.
The reel is a Hardy Brothers The Perfect Reel Mark II. This is in very good working condition.
Happy to answer any questions that I can. Thanks in advance for any assistance with this.
It is a Payne 98L 7' & 1 7/8 oz. that is in good working condition. I was told that when it is assembled there is a very subtle "Set"...but I can't see it. I do also have a second tip but that one is broker at the tip and is split around the third eyelet down.
The reel is a Hardy Brothers The Perfect Reel Mark II. This is in very good working condition.
Happy to answer any questions that I can. Thanks in advance for any assistance with this.
Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#2Beautiful rod and reel, about as nice as they come for short and light.
The Payne - I'll leave to others who have a lot more knowledge than me. I can say that short light rods like that are both highly desirable and not too common. The damage and condition issues are well worth setting right, and can be accomplished readily by a qualified restorationist. The work won't be cheap, but we are talking about a rod with a value in the low thousands.
The Hardy Perfect looks like a Mk 2 from the 1920's. It looks like a 2 7/8" RHW model would you confirm the diameter with a tape measure? It has a flat "saucer" shaped tensioner which can be used to date it exactly. The dates are escaping me now but I think it's something like 1922-1927. Very desirable reel with a beautiful agate. Assuming no damage and it runs smoothly with no wobble, and its a 2 7/8", it's worth somewhere in the range of $650-$800 depending on how much the buyer wants it. If I were advertising for a private, person to person sale, I'd probably start at $750. It needs a clean up, the scotch tape should come off too, but other than that a lubrication and I suspect it's ready to fish. The reel would balance the rod perfectly. It is a highly desirable reel for small, light out fits with 2/3/4 wt lines.
Cheers,
-John
The Payne - I'll leave to others who have a lot more knowledge than me. I can say that short light rods like that are both highly desirable and not too common. The damage and condition issues are well worth setting right, and can be accomplished readily by a qualified restorationist. The work won't be cheap, but we are talking about a rod with a value in the low thousands.
The Hardy Perfect looks like a Mk 2 from the 1920's. It looks like a 2 7/8" RHW model would you confirm the diameter with a tape measure? It has a flat "saucer" shaped tensioner which can be used to date it exactly. The dates are escaping me now but I think it's something like 1922-1927. Very desirable reel with a beautiful agate. Assuming no damage and it runs smoothly with no wobble, and its a 2 7/8", it's worth somewhere in the range of $650-$800 depending on how much the buyer wants it. If I were advertising for a private, person to person sale, I'd probably start at $750. It needs a clean up, the scotch tape should come off too, but other than that a lubrication and I suspect it's ready to fish. The reel would balance the rod perfectly. It is a highly desirable reel for small, light out fits with 2/3/4 wt lines.
Cheers,
-John
Last edited by BigTJ on 04/28/22 08:56, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#3Nice rod albeit in rough shape. A good candidate for a scarf and repair on the damaged tip. Like it is with original tube and damaged tip , $1000. 00
Reel , no idea. Diameter would be helpful.
Reel , no idea. Diameter would be helpful.
Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#4Thanks so much for the quick responses....and great info all around. Looks like a 2 /7/8" reel.
And what would I use to clean up the reel, in order to not risk damaging it?
And the rod is actually in very good shape...think the cork handle is what makes it look in rough shape.
But again, thanks so much for all the input.
And what would I use to clean up the reel, in order to not risk damaging it?
And the rod is actually in very good shape...think the cork handle is what makes it look in rough shape.
But again, thanks so much for all the input.
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Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#5hello, i need another rod like i need another picture of you-know-who!; but i might severely bruise or break my arm reaching for the checkbook if offered that original condition (depending upon hands-on inspection of course) 97 for 999.99. and i am not usually a fan of short rods and the handle was varnished ostensibly to protect the cork. i do not approve of that treatment.
regards, jim w
Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#6Thanks Jim...but I am sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying here. What treatment? Should I not try to clean the reel?
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Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#7hi, tb' i do not think varnishing a cork handle is helping protect it. worm droppings, fish slime and scales only enhance the rod.
by all means, clean the reel according to bulldog's method (look in search). i put the reels with black - not ivory or plastic - handle at late '20's or '30's. by intrepolation, i surmise the reel could be 2 12, 2 3/4, 2 7/8. or 3 inch, or 3 1/8 inch. see how to measure a reel in reel thread.
a great set of fishing tools!
regards, jim
9
Last edited by Seabowisha Salmo T on 04/28/22 11:55, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#8Jim was being funny, he thinks 999.99 is low (right Jim?). Basically he's saying he'd write a check for that rod for 999.99 in a heartbeat. I don't know Payne values very well but I suspect the same thing. It's a hell of a desirable little rod. The varnish on the cork isn't really a big deal it looks dark and ugly, the resotrationist can decide to sand that off or leave it alone.
Regarding your reel, it should get a vinegar and water bath. Look for "bulldog bath" in the search. Get all the grease, gunk and dirt off of it, all of which contribute to oxidation, while removing as little of the remaining finish from the outside. You can scrub at the inside with a toobrush where the gears are covered with grease, and get in the nooks and crannies around the agate lineguard, but be really gentle on the outside surface. A few things if you are serious about this. Do not use anything metal to get the springs and pawls off. Use wood - a wooden dowel pushes agains the spring to free it and the pawl. Ensure you can catch these items so they don't "poing" across the room, do not do this over the sink where small difficult to replace springs and pawls can end up in the gooseneck, do it in a plastic tub. Use care and common sense. Other than that, after the bath, it will need some marine bearing grease o, the spindle/bushing, the cogs of the main gear and the tip of the pawl, and light drop or two of gun oil on the tensioner, beneath the pawl (on the post), and the handle knob (inside where it spins) and the reel will be ready to go. It probably wouldn't hurt to put a light coat of automotive wax on the outside surfaces as well, or a spritz of boeshield (my preference).
Alternatively, just get a can of boeshield and use that both as a cleaning solvent and protectant. If the grease build up inside isn't bad, then that may be a better way to go.
Cheers,
-John
PS definitely a 2 7/8
Regarding your reel, it should get a vinegar and water bath. Look for "bulldog bath" in the search. Get all the grease, gunk and dirt off of it, all of which contribute to oxidation, while removing as little of the remaining finish from the outside. You can scrub at the inside with a toobrush where the gears are covered with grease, and get in the nooks and crannies around the agate lineguard, but be really gentle on the outside surface. A few things if you are serious about this. Do not use anything metal to get the springs and pawls off. Use wood - a wooden dowel pushes agains the spring to free it and the pawl. Ensure you can catch these items so they don't "poing" across the room, do not do this over the sink where small difficult to replace springs and pawls can end up in the gooseneck, do it in a plastic tub. Use care and common sense. Other than that, after the bath, it will need some marine bearing grease o, the spindle/bushing, the cogs of the main gear and the tip of the pawl, and light drop or two of gun oil on the tensioner, beneath the pawl (on the post), and the handle knob (inside where it spins) and the reel will be ready to go. It probably wouldn't hurt to put a light coat of automotive wax on the outside surfaces as well, or a spritz of boeshield (my preference).
Alternatively, just get a can of boeshield and use that both as a cleaning solvent and protectant. If the grease build up inside isn't bad, then that may be a better way to go.
Cheers,
-John
PS definitely a 2 7/8
Last edited by BigTJ on 04/28/22 12:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#9hi again; in a hardy trout reel, as i almost never fight from the reel unless the fish is really big,
i do not use any grease fishing in fresh water, only remington oil - dupont knows chemistry - better things for better living.
one more important thing - please fish the he(double hockey sticks) out of the payne. that is what jim made it for! it is not a wall hanger and putting it on the wall might even be toxic for it.
regards, jim
i do not use any grease fishing in fresh water, only remington oil - dupont knows chemistry - better things for better living.
one more important thing - please fish the he(double hockey sticks) out of the payne. that is what jim made it for! it is not a wall hanger and putting it on the wall might even be toxic for it.
regards, jim
Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#10I don't think that grip is varnished, just well used with Salmon eggs, worms, kernels of corn , chicken livers and velveta cheese goo along with Trout slime .It should clean up pretty good though. I stick by $1000 for a one tip Payne with pretty rough looking varnish that would likely need a restoration, IMHO of coarse!
Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#12I agree with Tommasini. There is probably $750 worth of work, including another tip, and that put's it right about where a restored version with a non-original 2nd tip would be.
The reel, possibly 5-600 after a good bath as recommended. Nice to see such an old reel with what appears to be a good agate guide.
The reel, possibly 5-600 after a good bath as recommended. Nice to see such an old reel with what appears to be a good agate guide.
Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#13Hello, great to see another 98L. I bought the one Per Brandin offered last year, intending to use on the small creeks and small trout I fish for in California. So far (with a DT2 silk) it's working out just fine. My hanging tag looks very similar (though my rod weighs in at 2.14), it is light-in-hand and medium on the flex, very accurate and fun on the right stream. My rod has been fished though the grip isn't as dark as yours. I honestly wouldn't clean it -- a righteously clean grip on a vintage rod is sorta weird for me. I like honorable use, and reserve work on rods only for when it's needed to preserve the stick. If you go the restoration route make sure to select a really good guy (Schroeder has done good work for me, others too).
Congrats to you. It's historic and a fun rod to use, but it's a specialty rod. It is not a general purpose trout rod by any stretch. If you are a fishing/collector sort like me -- you fish your collection, in other words -- this Payne can be the lightest rod you own, then you build your collection up from there.
Imho 1k is a base price, for its scarcity. If I were selling it I'd ask more.
Congrats to you. It's historic and a fun rod to use, but it's a specialty rod. It is not a general purpose trout rod by any stretch. If you are a fishing/collector sort like me -- you fish your collection, in other words -- this Payne can be the lightest rod you own, then you build your collection up from there.
Imho 1k is a base price, for its scarcity. If I were selling it I'd ask more.
Last edited by Flykuni3 on 04/29/22 16:40, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Payne 98L - 7 ft & 1 7/8 oz
#16Nice stick
I’ve owned several 7’ Payne’s
If you offered it for $1,000 I’d buy her
Two tip restored $3,000
Original two tip 4-5,000 depending on if it was mint
D
I’ve owned several 7’ Payne’s
If you offered it for $1,000 I’d buy her
Two tip restored $3,000
Original two tip 4-5,000 depending on if it was mint
D