Gut leaders

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fishinintexas
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Gut leaders

#1

Post by fishinintexas »

I picked up a collection of stuff a while back and havent really gone through it till tonight. It has quite the collection of Silkworm gut leaders. Thought i would share

Image

ozarkwater
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Re: Gut leaders

#2

Post by ozarkwater »

I had about...three or so given to my mother to give to me. A doctor who worked at the hospital where she worked knew from Mom that I had started fly fishing. I thought they were awesome. Worked great, fantastic presentation. Even if I was a kid, I knew they were special. Kind of a pain to deal with though.

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Brooks
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Re: Gut leaders

#3

Post by Brooks »

Not to derail, but are there any pictures out there of the tool(s) used to cut gut leaders down to size? I've told many people over the years about why the X system is used, but I've never actually seen the V-shaped razor, or other devices that allegedly cut the gut to the desired size: i.e. 3 passes thru, makes it 3X.
Last edited by Brooks on 04/29/22 14:20, edited 1 time in total.

jim royston
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Re: Gut leaders

#4

Post by jim royston »

I was under the impression that they were "drawn" through dies that had each had a smaller diameter

bluesjay
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Re: Gut leaders

#5

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Guys, I saw a such a device as jim royston describes owned by a salmon fly tyer which was probably a hobby size, but old and in useable shape. A steel block with a lot of holes. It was pretty cool.

Jay Edwards

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Brooks
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Re: Gut leaders

#6

Post by Brooks »

I have heard stories of grinders, v-shaped razors, die-holes, that's why I ask. I'd love to see what was actually used back when gut leaders were being cranked out en masse.

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: Gut leaders

#7

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

[quotie sizing for se=Brooks post_id=950296 time=1651259911 user_id=22773]
I have heard stories of grinders, v-shaped razors, die-holes, that's why I ask. I'd love to see what was actually used back when gut leaders were being cranked out en masse.
[/quote]
hello, manufacturers used the die system similar to dies used in making steel wire.

regards, jim

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DrLogik
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Re: Gut leaders

#8

Post by DrLogik »

Silk makers pull out the silk gland from the silk worm and draw the gland through dies, much like how spaghetti is made. They draw and draw until they get the desired diameter. Crazy process actually.

Google "making silk gut leaders" and you'll find a lot of fascinating information.

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Brooks
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Re: Gut leaders

#9

Post by Brooks »

Thanks Jim. But, if dies were used, similar to wire manufacturing,
I would assume they were passed thru the die “one and done”, just like wire.

I’m wondering what was used for the “3 passes thru narrows it down to .008 making it 3X” of flyfishing folklore? Or are dies of the type that keep cutting it down as you keep passing it thru over and over?

Edit: or I guess the holes were graduated, eventually you go in steps from bigger hole down to the next, the 3rd hole being 3X as an example?
Sorry to belabor this, but I find it fascinating, and the X system is part of our past-time’s curious vernacular.

redietz
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Re: Gut leaders

#10

Post by redietz »

jim royston wrote:
04/29/22 12:29
I was under the impression that they were "drawn" through dies that had each had a smaller diameter
Correct.

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reelsmith
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Re: Gut leaders

#11

Post by reelsmith »

jim royston wrote:
04/29/22 12:29
I was under the impression that they were "drawn" through dies that had each had a smaller diameter
Correct. This one is marked "T. L. Payne, Maker, Coventry". The rear has size markings of X to 5X and the tool is dated 1930.

The holes are jeweled.

Image

Dean.

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Brooks
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Re: Gut leaders

#12

Post by Brooks »

Cool. Thanks for the photo!

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ReelPatina
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Re: Gut leaders

#13

Post by ReelPatina »

I can only imagine the reclusiveness and rabbit hole some of us would be venturing down if gut leaders were still used. What craftsmanship and knowledge one had to have.

We ponder and discuss the secretiveness of the rob builders milling machines and locked varnish rooms, but imagine the mad scientist like basement laboratory of the fly fisherman working through the ideal taper and diameter of the perfect gut leader back in the day. Trial and error, day in and day out, formaldehyde jars galore!

A whole other avenue to obsess and loose one’s mind over that has been taken away from us with technology and the fruits of science.

Gut leaders are a whole other venue I certainly never experienced, but would have been an everyday fishing occurrence for my grandfather. I wonder how the daily fishing routine would have changed and if everyone would have used these gauges for gut diameter or just at the store. How many guys were making them from home…

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Brooks
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Re: Gut leaders

#14

Post by Brooks »


Dwight
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Re: Gut leaders

#15

Post by Dwight »

Leonard M. Wright, Jr. made a strong case in favor of gut over nylon that’s worth reading. I think I found it in ‘Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect.’ I plan try tying and fishing some tapered gut leaders from vintage rolls of 15lb to 2lb Japanese silk gut this summer.

ps: RealPatina, fantastic image your last post conjured!

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: Gut leaders

#16

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

Dwight wrote:
05/06/22 19:36
Leonard M. Wright, Jr. made a strong case in favor of gut over nylon that’s worth reading. I think I found it in ‘Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect.’ I plan try tying and fishing some tapered gut leaders from vintage rolls of 15lb to 2lb Japanese silk gut this summer.

ps: RealPatina, fantastic image your last post conjured!
hello; i fished gut leaders from 50's to mid 80's till all worn out and sections too short to make up a decent leader. they are definitely better to cast and to lay down a floater than substitutes.

regards, jim w

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