Orvis superfine 1pc

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Trutta
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Orvis superfine 1pc

#1

Post by Trutta »

Thought I would share this taper, it’s a great casting rod!
0 .079
5 .088
10 .102
15 .116
20 .132
25 .146
30 .158
35 .167
40 .185
45 .197
50 .211
55 .220
60 .233
65 .255 (actually 64.5 right at the winding check)
Last edited by Trutta on 05/19/22 10:58, edited 1 time in total.

bluesjay
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#2

Post by bluesjay »

Hi Trutta, Thanks... Is there a line weight you like?

Jay Edwards

Trutta
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#3

Post by Trutta »

Currently using a 5 WF, I’m hoping to try a 4 wt, 5 seems a little soggy on the longer casts.

eastprong
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#4

Post by eastprong »

These rods were rated for a 6wt by Orvis. I owned one and usually fished a 5wt on it except for smaller streams where the 6wt was needed. Look at those first three dimensions -- very thick -- you need some weight to make the rod work.

--Rich
Last edited by eastprong on 05/14/22 14:26, edited 1 time in total.

bluesjay
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#5

Post by bluesjay »

H Guys, Thanks for the advise. Jay Edwards

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Tom Smithwick
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#6

Post by Tom Smithwick »

It seems to me that the tip and the butt are not in balance with each other. I think you could make a decent 4 weight out of this by changing the 0" dimension to .062, and the 5" dimension to .084. I believe that would give you a more responsive tip, and the butt would have enough strength to turn it over.

60InchDV8
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#7

Post by 60InchDV8 »

G’Day Gents,
Was this Orvis taper similar to the Sharpes/Farlow made Wulff one piece 5 wt.?
Regardsfrom the Restigouche....Jim

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henkverhaar
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#8

Post by henkverhaar »

Tom Smithwick wrote:
05/15/22 12:18
It seems to me that the tip and the butt are not in balance with each other.
You think? Even after 'changing' the listed numbers from .79 and .88 to .079 and .088 (which I assume was the intention in the first place - typos?)?

When plotted as that, it looks like a fairly decent taper to me:



Image

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Tom Smithwick
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#9

Post by Tom Smithwick »

Hi Henk - Overall, it is a good taper, but the tip is going to be unresponsive, and it will be difficult to throw a tight loop with it. If you assume a 60" action length with the original tip, the average slope go the rod is .00256/inch. IMHO, that's not enough taper in a short rod. What you need in a short rod is a tip light enough to be responsive, and a butt with enough strength to carry a longer line, in other words, a fair amount of slope. With the .062 tip the average slope is .00285/inch, which is a lot more likely to work. The numbers I am suggesting were not pulled out of the air, BTW, they are just about what I did years ago to revamp an Orvis Mitey-Mite which had a similar tip with a somewhat heavier butt. It would carry a lot of line in the air, but tight loops were next to impossible, and they are what you need in small, tight streams where short rods should excel.
One feature I would point out is the flatter slope in the 30" range, which I have seen on other Orvis short rods. Normally, I would avoid anything that suggests a "hinge" in the action, but on a short rod, that can be a good thing as it seems to allow just a bit more flex. I doubt that any caster would pick up on it, but it seems to work.
All of the above offered FWIW, as taper preferences are a highly subjective thing. I much prefer to have such discussions with the rigged up rod in my hands with enough space to cast it

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henkverhaar
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#10

Post by henkverhaar »

Tom - thanks for your insights; most enlightening. I have indeed experienced a tad of 'clubbiness' in the short rods I've made as prototypes. I'll experiment with tip slopes on these, as you suggest, and see if it improves their behaviour ;-)

Cheers

Henk

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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#11

Post by trland »

Is this a 6' rod? Does a 2 piece version have the "hinge" that Tom points out at where the ferrule would be on a 2 piece? Edit: I'm assuming Orvis made a 2 piece version but I don't have any knowledge of that.

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Greg Reynolds
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#12

Post by Greg Reynolds »

trland wrote:
05/16/22 09:18
Is this a 6' rod? Does a 2 piece version have the "hinge" that Tom points out at where the ferrule would be on a 2 piece? Edit: I'm assuming Orvis made a 2 piece version but I don't have any knowledge of that.
Yes, it's a 6-foot rod and Orvis didn't offer a 2-piece version.

There were two Superfine tapers. The first weighing 1 3/4-oz was introduced in 1954 and made through 1962. Orvis modified the taper for 1963 after adopting the AFTMA line standards. The 1 7/8-oz taper was produced through 1971.

1954:
Image

1963:
Image

1971:
Image

I've owned the 1 7/8-oz version for 22 years and fish it regularly with half a DT5F line on tight streams where casts are short. It's paired with a Hardy Flyweight with a 2nd spool loaded with a DT4F line for more open streams.

I like the smooth medium action of the Superfine very much and have never found it lacking.
Last edited by Greg Reynolds on 05/16/22 15:09, edited 1 time in total.

trland
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#13

Post by trland »

Thanks Greg. Perhaps the version history explains why the 1 7/8 oz one posted in David Ray's Taper Library averages maybe 15 thousandths larger than this one over the length of the rod (although it surprised me that it is that much larger).

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Tom Smithwick
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#14

Post by Tom Smithwick »

Hi Triand - I have not measured enough Orvis rods to know under what conditions they used the flatter spot in the taper. I have seen it more than once, however. On page 4 in this section of the forum, there is a long thread on an Orvis 5.5 foot 3 piece pack rod. On page 4 of that thread, I charted the numbers given, and you will see the same sort of "hinge". I do want to say again that I doubt any caster will actually feel it. Everything happens pretty quickly with this type of taper.

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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#15

Post by trland »

Thanks Tom. That’s the reason I was asking because that “hinge” is right at the butt/mid ferrule in the 3 piece pack rod from that thread so we used a 13-12 step down ferrule there. I replied just a few posts after yours on page 4 that we made a 1,2, and 3 piece version of the pack rod taper. I like all 3 versions but as you say, I can’t feel the hinge.

Mike

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Tom Smithwick
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#16

Post by Tom Smithwick »

I should also add that the pictures of Lee Wulff in the catalog that Greg posted likely explain the tip dimensions. If you are going to be tangling with 20-30 pound salmon, I can see the advantage.

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Greg Reynolds
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#17

Post by Greg Reynolds »

The Superfine & Deluxe aren't delicate light-line rods and weren't intended to be. They're just short rods and very unlike the Leonard Catskills.

The Seven/three and Flea are more analogous to the Catskills.

Trutta
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Re: Orvis superfine 1pc

#18

Post by Trutta »

Yep, definitely a typo. The taper has been corrected. Sorry to ruffle feathers! The taper was taken directly from the rod I have at 5 inch intervals. 3 measurements were taken at each interval. At every station there was one variation.
For example at station 5 .088 .088 .089 it pretty much ran like that throughout the rod with one measurement being higher.

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