A complicated taper question

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bamboo rodley
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A complicated taper question

#1

Post by bamboo rodley »

This may be a difficult question to answer, so first off I appreciate any assistance that is offered.

I am in the process of trying to build a rod from parts of other rods.(Probably not a good idea, right?) So what I have is two matching tip blanks I bought on the auction site for a very reasonable price, and an old Allcock's 9 ft rod that is a two piece rod and probably at least a 7 wt. The tips I purchased were advertised as old Orvis tips, and impregnated cane. I would guess this may not be accurate, but they seem to be reasonably well made tips and have 3 x 3 node spacing, but don't seem to be impregnated. What I have put together from the rod sections is a three piece 8' 3" rod with the foillowing taper progression:

0" .070
5" .085
10" .105
15" .117
20" .130
25" .138
30" .145
35" .155
40" .163
45" .180
50" .190
55" .200
60" .212
65" .220
70" .238
75" .255
80" .267
85" .277
90" .291
95" .310

This is the taper of the blank with no finish. Sections are equal length 33.5", and ferrules are size 10/64 and size 15/64.

I have spent a fair amount of time looking at 8 ft rod tapers in both 4 and 5 wt. I would guess this rod may be a 4 wt. Many of the tapers I have looked at are relatively similar to this one except for the butt section, where the taper seems to normally increase more dramatically toward the end of the rod than the taper I have on this rod. I have a fondness for slow action rods, and generally do not fish dry flies, so from that standpoint this taper may be to my liking. But I would like to avoid having an overly noodly rod, so I am wondering if there might be some suggestions for a grip style that would perhaps compensate for the lack of a beefed up taper at the butt end of the rod. One idea would be a wooden grip, but I wonder if that might be too much of an abrupt change and thus exaggerate the over flexing of the rod. Another idea I had was to make a thin wooden sleeve that would go under the cork to slightly beef up the butt end of the rod, but not as drastically as a wooden grip might. So this is my dilemma. Any advice would be much appreciated. I have also considered looking for a different butt section to use for the rod, one that might have a more fitting taper, but there aren't a whole lot of used butt sections with a size 15 ferrule. Thanks in advance for any advice.

trland
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Re: A complicated taper question

#2

Post by trland »

I plugged the numbers into Hexrod and did some comparisons. I would agree it’s going to be a pretty slow action 4 weight. The butt would be too soft for my taste. If you don’t have ferrules on it yet, I would think you could trim each piece to make a 7’ 6” or so 4 weight that would be a bit stiffer in the butt. If the dimensions at the ferrules don’t align you could consider step down ferrules.

trland
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Re: A complicated taper question

#3

Post by trland »

I took the liberty to "cut" 3 inches off your blanks. 3" either side of the tip to mid ferrule and 3" on the butt ferrule and this is what the 2 rods look like. The 7' 6" rod would work well with 15-14 and 10-9 step down ferrules. I think it would still be a 4 weight.


Image

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bamboo rodley
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Re: A complicated taper question

#4

Post by bamboo rodley »

Thank you for your replies Triand. I have already glued the ferrules on the blanks pieces, but have not yet cut the butt piece to final length(it is about 4 inches long still on the butt end).. I don't quite understand the stress curve graphs, but looking at curves of other tapers on the hexrod site, I see that there are wide variations in the shape of the curves. Do you have any thoughts on how changing the grip style as I suggested would affect things.

trland
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Re: A complicated taper question

#5

Post by trland »

My first thought is that anything you do under the grip won’t change the action much if any since the rod doesn’t flex much under your hand. That said, you may be able to stop any minor grip flexion better with a full wells style grip. I’m certainly no expert on rod action or design though. I would wait and see if anyone else has a thought. The stress curves are just reflecting what the dimension graph shows: that there is less stress in the areas where there is a larger diameter, meaning a stiffer rod in those areas. Sure you don’t want me to cut those ferrules off for you. :lol

Franknrod
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Re: A complicated taper question

#6

Post by Franknrod »

If you tape some guides and a reel onto the blank, you could do some lawn casting and get a feel for how the rod will feel. A single foot ceramic guide instead of a tip top would allow you to try different end points for the tip (if you are considering shortening it). You can also tape the reel to different spots on the butt if you are thinking of shortening the butt section. Even without a grip, this will give you some sense how how the rod would feel. Regular masking tape works fine but blue painters tape is too weak. Good luck - I love Franknrod type projects! 😁
Frank Payne

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bamboo rodley
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Re: A complicated taper question

#7

Post by bamboo rodley »

Thanks again for the comments. I am still thinking about ways to beef up the butt section. One idea is to start about 18" up from the butt end and round the cane from that point to the end of the butt. That would be starting at about dimension .267 which would be about 17/64. I would then make a tapered sleeve from wood, probably walnut, that I would glue over the cane and then round down to about 3/8 ", but tapering to less than that at the point where it meets the cane. So essentially I would be creating a swelled butt section using a wooden sleeve. Not sure if this would work, but I may give it a try. The worst that could happen is that I would have to scrap the butt section and find a new section to use instead. I also like the idea of taping on some guides to see how it casts, so I might try that as well.

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bamboo rodley
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Re: A complicated taper question

#8

Post by bamboo rodley »

Well, as it turns out, I went thru my spare rod sections and found an old 9 1/2 ft Montague Redwing butt section that will work with this set up. In fact, I can cut the section at the correct taper dimension and use the existing cork and reel seat on the Montague butt section. I will post the new taper dimensions tomorrow, but the Monty butt section has a swelled butt, so I think it will work well. So it will be a true Franknrod with sections from three different rods. I will need to remove the female ferrule I glued onto the butt section I was going to use, but hopefully a little heat will solve that issue. Thanks again for the comments.

JoeBolt
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Re: A complicated taper question

#9

Post by JoeBolt »

Hoo Boy. Again with the 9 1/2' Monty!?
What's to become of them?

(newb ducks incoming.. :rollin)

It's Alive! I tell you, It's Alive!! Yes! Complicated. Go for it...
btw, is there a friendly Frankenrod Thread?
Please post frequent updates about this unholy acquisition & merger of lignified power fibers.

It's upcycling at its best, and the floor is yours.
Complicated, indeed. Have fun.

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bamboo rodley
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Re: A complicated taper question

#10

Post by bamboo rodley »

Here is the new taper with the Montague butt section:


0" .070
5" .085
10" .105
15" .117
20" .130
25" .138
30" .145
35" .155
40" .163
45" .180
50" .190
55" .200
60" .212
65" .220
70" .240
75" .250
80" .262
85" .330
90" .350

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