Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

This is the board to ask about the identity, or for an appraisal, of a rod. Please use the outline as explained on the board. If there is a makers name, list that in the subject line. Make sure you include the length, number of sections, any identifying markings and the general condition. Adding photographs is always helpful!

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loosepuck
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Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#1

Post by loosepuck »

Howdy
I have recently become the caretaker of a Claude Kreider made rod. I am interested in a value for it and may consider selling it. It was originally made for a family member of his George McClaren. I will list the required criterion below. Any questions please ask. Any info you may have or a value would be great.


(1) 8 ft. The length of the rod when assembled
(2) 3 piece the number of pieces that make up the rod
(3) YES. if it comes with a second tip
(4)YES. are all the rod sections the same length
(5) GRADE 8. There two items I noted, shown in the pix. A 1 revolution unravel of the tip thread. The cork handle has a couple small divots. general condition use the conditon grading system listed below
(6) C.M. Kreider
5-STRIP. 8 FT. 4 1/2 OZ.
GEORGE C MCCLAREN JULY 1-55 any information that is writen on the rod or stamped in the reel seat
(7) IT COMES IN A TUBE CALLED THE SIERRA AND A PRETTY SHREDDED BAG, NOT LABELEDif it comes in a labeled bag and tube.

Thank you to all for your info
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Pentalux
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#3

Post by Pentalux »

loosepuck hello,
Interesting looking rod. The sock is likely original as that was the style he provided with the ties coming from the top right corner of the bag when open. I have one of his 5-strips with the exact same bag as yours and a six-strip with a red sock but also same design. Tube may well be what it came in.

The challenge with pricing his rods is that he didn't have a standard grade or series of models that help grade and define the rod and thus value. Claude would build rods to fit any budget. He reportedly would even take used ferrules from a clients old rod or as provided (often not matching) and use them on a "new" rod. He also made some absolutely gorgeous pieces with excellent metal and thread work (variegated with red tipping, olive with red tipping, etc) as well as finish. The ferrules on this rod are somewhat curious looking as most five-strip Kreider's have Super-Z stamped ferrules and the ferrule stations are very smooth looking - hard to tell but looks like the cane may have been slightly over cut on this one.

The seat on your rod is commonly found on many of his rods (it was considered super modern at the time) as is the hammer grip design (have the same on my five-strip) but he also made superb nickel silver cap and ring over wood inserts as well as stainless ferrules with beryllium slides.

Hoping one of our resident appraisers can help you more with price as to me it looks like it was originally made to a lower price point as the cane work, ferrules, basic threads and general finish seem to indicate. IF had to estimate, would say high value in $400-500 range but knowing its line weight might help that.

loosepuck
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#4

Post by loosepuck »

Hi Pentalux

Thanks for the great info. It gives me better insight into where this rod fits into the pantheon of fly rods. I looked at the ferrules and they do indeed say SUPER Z. They have a nice gold finish where they attach to the cane. Is the green corrosion? Can I remove it back to the lustrous gold underneath?

How would I find out its line weight? I am surprised it is not somewhere on this rod.

Thanks again for the great info.

Greg

Storyteller
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#5

Post by Storyteller »

Hi Loosepuck,

I would love to connect with you on the rod and hear about how you were able to become a caretaker of this rod.

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Pentalux
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#6

Post by Pentalux »

My apologies for missing your follow up questions loosepuck. The gold at edges is most likely varnish and the green is likely tarnish or minor corrosion to the nickel-silver (white brass) that the ferrules are made of. You can definitely remove that and really should.

The line weight is the line that the rod casts best. Back in the day the weight of the rod was an indicator especially if ferrule size(s) was known (diameter of male slide(s)) so at 4 1/2 oz's (if that's the total weight) its probably a 6 or 6/7wt. Such info wasn't really put on a rod when this was made and if was it would be in a letter form - ie H.D.H or H.E.H, etc. It was and still is often left off of a rod as the application can also effect it - ie is angler casting close distances or long, WF or DT line, etc. as well, people often have different tastes or preferences for the same rod. If you know anyone who fly fishes perhaps they would be willing to cast it for you with a few lines and give you a general opinion on its line weight.

Did notice it has a nice hammer style grip that was very unique to Kreider - they take some getting used to but definitely fun to fish with.

Enjoy the rod.

Best regards,
Rob

Vaughanwilson3022
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#7

Post by Vaughanwilson3022 »

Interesting how appraisals get ignored.

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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#8

Post by joep »

Vaughanwilson3022 wrote:
12/14/22 16:54
Interesting how appraisals get ignored.
😂😂😂

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Short Tip
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#9

Post by Short Tip »

Vaughanwilson3022 wrote:
12/14/22 16:54
Interesting how appraisals get ignored.
C'mon now, it wasn't ignored, he used the info he was given to pimp the rod!

AlexP
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#10

Post by AlexP »

It was not ignored, the OP just multiplied the appraisals x4 based on the listing I have seen. Pretty funny. :)

crowebeetle
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#11

Post by crowebeetle »

Of course we all know that any bamboo rod is worth at least 1000 so 2K isn't out of question. He will let you buy it at a discount of 500

NewUtahCaneAngler
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#12

Post by NewUtahCaneAngler »

I have to add my 2 cents to this discussion. If I ask for an appraisal and am told that my rod is worth some amount of money and I then list it on eBay for 2 or 3X what I was told…and someone purchases it at my asking price, was my pricing wrong or were the appraisals provided wrong?

In my short time on this forum, I have seen rods sell for 2x of the consensus here. I have also sold rods for > 50% more than I paid for said rod from well known and respected dealers within 12 months of my purchases. Did the dealers price them wrong? Did I price them too high? Or did the buyers pay too much?

The real value of something is what someone else is willing to pay at a given time. The value of a beer when you are stuck in a stadium is much higher than the value of that same beer at a grocery store. The value of a scarce rod may be much more than many of us may be willing to pay for that rod.

Cheers,
Joe

I believe that said buyer could sell said rod and get his/her money back if they choose to sell what was once my rod.

Cheers,
Joe

Webfly
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#13

Post by Webfly »

I have not seen many that have been sold for 2X+ the consensus on this forum. I have seen many rods that just do not have many sold comparisons to go by, hence being difficult to give an accurate appraisal.

AlexP
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#14

Post by AlexP »

The only numbers that I see in this thread are $400-500. If I remember correctly, the listing here in the Classifieds was for $2,000 and the one in the Auction Big Site is $2,200.

I suspect that the OP might have got other appraisals offline or even offers higher than the $400-500 range. I do agree, the real value is what somebody pays for it.

Tight Lines

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Pentalux
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#15

Post by Pentalux »

Must confess, after he confirmed the ferrules were stamped Super-Z and re-considering the hammer style grip, I do think it's worth a bit more than I originally noted but still thinking sub 1k for sure - love to be wrong as have an all original nice dry fly taper 8' 2/2 5/6 five-strip rod of his I would certainly entertain selling if it does but as told him in a PM the node spacing and overall work looks suspiciously like a Uslan kit blank which it very well may be but either way Kreider has rods out there that display a much higher degree of craftsmanship in regard to node and cane work as well as finish and ferrules.

I have a six strip 7 1/2' 3/2 4wt Kreider that I have let people cast along with an original Payne 98 and a PHY Perfectionist - fit and finish lies somewhere between the Young and the Payne but the Kreider is always the favorite caster (surprises me every time) - Claude could definitely build a sweet rod but as for the one in question, I feel like I was fleeced.

NewUtahCaneAngler
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#16

Post by NewUtahCaneAngler »

My above comment about us sometimes being wrong was meant to be a general comment rather than specific to this rod.

Here is one example where values were given and another rod in not nearly as good of condition sold for 2X what was being provided as the estimated value.

viewtopic.php?t=128836&hilit=Orvis+flea
Cheers,
Joe

Webfly
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#17

Post by Webfly »

NewUtahCaneAngler wrote:
12/16/22 16:19
My above comment about us sometimes being wrong was meant to be a general comment rather than specific to this rod.

Here is one example where values were given and another rod in not nearly as good of condition sold for 2X what was being provided as the estimated value.

viewtopic.php?t=128836&hilit=Orvis+flea
Cheers,
Joe
That was during “extreme Covid week”. Things were all over the map.

Webfly
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#18

Post by Webfly »

Webfly wrote:
12/16/22 17:30
NewUtahCaneAngler wrote:
12/16/22 16:19
My above comment about us sometimes being wrong was meant to be a general comment rather than specific to this rod.

Here is one example where values were given and another rod in not nearly as good of condition sold for 2X what was being provided as the estimated value.

viewtopic.php?t=128836&hilit=Orvis+flea
Cheers,
Joe
That was during “extreme Covid month”. The world was coming to an end and things were all over the map.

Webfly
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#19

Post by Webfly »

Webfly wrote:
12/16/22 17:31
Webfly wrote:
12/16/22 17:30
NewUtahCaneAngler wrote:
12/16/22 16:19
My above comment about us sometimes being wrong was meant to be a general comment rather than specific to this rod.

Here is one example where values were given and another rod in not nearly as good of condition sold for 2X what was being provided as the estimated value.

viewtopic.php?t=128836&hilit=Orvis+flea
Cheers,
Joe
That was during “extreme Covid month”. The world was coming to an end and things were all over the map. Heck, a group of mine lost 10’s of thousands of dollars on a Cuba trip the next month.

NewUtahCaneAngler
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Re: Appraisal Request CM Kreider 5 strip 8 ft 4 1/2 oz

#20

Post by NewUtahCaneAngler »

That “As new” Flea was always worth more than what many here suggested as a good price. I would have gladly added IoT to my collection for $750

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