Longer salmon rods in single hand or spey line rating?

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kakaryan
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Longer salmon rods in single hand or spey line rating?

#1

Post by kakaryan »

This might be a silly question but I did some research and I can't seem to find a confirmed answer.

For those longer salmon rods, are their line weight in single hand rating or spey line rating?

For example, Hardy rods, they didn't rate their rods in line weight (#) until 1962. I checked their 1962 catalog, which they started giving AFTM # for their rods.

For the longer salmon rods, such as the A.H.E. Wood Salmon, is rated 12', #8, 14oz.

So, is this #8 a single hand 8wt or spey 8wt?

I understand back then, most of these long rods were cast overhead (not spey cast), and Hardy stated in the catalog that the line rating is AFTM not AFFTA. So it looks like it is single hand 8wt?

But, I found some old posts which owner fished modern 500gr head and AFS 8wt (spey line wt) on such rods. So the loading looks like it is an 8wt spey rod.

Thoughts?

mac7x
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Re: Longer salmon rods in single hand or spey line rating?

#2

Post by mac7x »

Don't know when the new Spey line ratings came into being. I attended a Sage Spey casting class in 1999, if I recall correctly, with Alastair (Ally) Gowans as the instructor. They were still using the old AFTMA standards at that time, with the most recommended line being a DT. I haven't used a Spey rod since, so I've forgotten most of what I learned, but one thing I do remember is Ally telling us that he had caught a salmon on a 49 yard cast. Makes one wonder just how much we need all these super specialized, compound taper Spey lines.
'Back then", I believe that most US made two handers were for overhead casting, but I suspect that most British were for Spey casting.

16pmd
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Re: Longer salmon rods in single hand or spey line rating?

#3

Post by 16pmd »

The spey line ratings are more recent than the ratings for those older Hardy two handers, which used single hand ratings

Sash
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Location: London & SW Wales, UK

Re: Longer salmon rods in single hand or spey line rating?

#4

Post by Sash »

I think it is incorrect (or, at least, slightly misleading), for older cane double handed rods, to refer to the rating as "single handed".
Rather, they were all rated for double taper (DT) lines. Perhaps (also incorrectly?) I think of single-hander ratings as refering nowadays to weight forward lines.
In the case of Hardy, these DT lines were 30 yards long up to, and including, 8-weight lines.
But the 9-weight and 10-weight lines were 40 yards, so took up a lot of space on a reel!

I cannot speak for the early-Sixties (!), but a decade or so later most salmon fishing with double handers in the UK would have been a mix of overhead, roll casting, and Spey casting, generally depending on the precise nature of the pool, and hence ability to back cast (or not). And, since most casts with a DT floating line could be with 15-20 yards of line out, this would equate to the region of 350-420 grains weight, not the 10 yards/210 grains as defined by AFTM (as was) for an 8-weight line.

I had a day's guiding and casting lessons with Ally Gowans, and he was a simply stunning caster: he could put out an entire 40 yard DT line, seemingly with ease. And with whatever rod the client put in his hands. Humbling, but also utterly beautiful to watch. His speciality was teaching Spey casting, generally because it suited tree-lined rivers in Scotland, and taught the essentials of timing.

16pmd
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Re: Longer salmon rods in single hand or spey line rating?

#5

Post by 16pmd »

The single hand ratings were for both WF and DT lines and was the only line numbering system in effect at the time those rods were made. Of course when casting a heavy DT with say 60' of line out you were casting a much heavier load (roughly double) than the weight of the 30' of line that was the basis of the line weight numbering system. It was definitely the single hand numbering system. That confusing mismatch of the then-existing single hand system with spey lines and rods was the reason for the much newer and current two hand line rating system.

kakaryan
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Re: Longer salmon rods in single hand or spey line rating?

#6

Post by kakaryan »

Appreciate all the replies. Make sense now.

So even though, for example, the 8wt A.H.E., could cast double the load at ~400gr, when picking a modern plastic WF or DT line for it, we still pick a 8wt single hand line (~210gr at 30ft), right?

Just like park casting, when you are holding that 70ft head of the 5wt Rio Gold Tournament or SA Expert distance in the air with a 5wt rod, you are basically casting an ATFM 7 or even 8wt weight, but you would not fish a 8wt line on that 5wt rod.

16pmd
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Re: Longer salmon rods in single hand or spey line rating?

#7

Post by 16pmd »

"So even though, for example, the 8wt A.H.E., could cast double the load at ~400gr, when picking a modern plastic WF or DT line for it, we still pick a 8wt single hand line (~210gr at 30ft), right?"

That's exactly right as far as weight goes, but if you have an 8 wt two-hander you are far better with a modern 8 wt. spey taper line. There are now a variety of better spey taper lines than a standard DT.

kakaryan
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Re: Longer salmon rods in single hand or spey line rating?

#8

Post by kakaryan »

So to conclude would it be safe to say that, for single hand line get a 8wt (such as a longer taper Rio Salmon/Steelhead or Wulff TT), for spey line get a 6wt (2wt lighter) such as a Rio Short Head Spey 6wt, would be a good starting point to try and less risk in overloading or breaking the rod. Then if, after casting and find it being too light, go up a line wt from here?

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