Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

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quashnet
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Re: Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

#21

Post by quashnet »

The evidence points to a rod that may have been assembled by Paul H. Young, but not built by him. We had pretty much this same conversation about a rod that you bought in 2015, and posted photos of it on the Forum. It was Young himself who made the distinction between building and assembling rods, and it mattered a lot to him (see Todd Larson's article in his "Fishing for History" series, which quotes Young extensively on his history of rod assembly and rod building). The Wikipedia article quotes a sentence from Patrick Garner's book about E.W. Edwards. I don't know what Pat meant about Young "outsourcing fishing rod construction." Young was a midwestern dealer for these makers and others like Granger, Payne, and F.E. Thomas. In 1933 Young had Thomas make some special order rods with the grip design that Young preferred, but Young did not make those grips himself. At other times, Young modified and assembled rods received from the makers he represented: "From 1938 to 1942 I assembled good numbers of fly rods here of So. Bend, Edwards, Heddon and other sticks, making my own grips and putting in a single or double thumb rest, depending on the size of the rod." World War II interrupted this activity. It was not until 1946, post-war, that Young built rods "from scratch," which to him meant splitting cane and making the bamboo blank. Young's history of rod assembly vs. rod building is clear from the 1946 letter that Young wrote to his attorney, with relevant sections quoted by Larson.
Please visit and bookmark the Paul H. Young Rod Database
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Other rod databases: Dickerson , Orvis , Powell

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jhcoffeebum
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Re: Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

#22

Post by jhcoffeebum »

I just talked to Bob Summers, I sent him the pictures I have and his assessment pretty much matches quashnet’s in that it might be a Young rod but the ferrules don’t match and especially the ugly wraps don’t.
If anything, it could be one of the Heddon built rods for Paul like the 9’ 2/2 piece dry fly special he currently has on his web page.
I just love these old bamboo fly rods. Many very nice built rods by ? Who. Thanks for all the communication this post has generated, better than discussing the weather, religion or politics in my mind!
But your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
They're already overcrowded from your dirty little war
Now Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason's for
And your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore

John Prine

jim royston
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Re: Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

#23

Post by jim royston »

Your preemptive strike to sell it as a Young rod speaks volumes.

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jhcoffeebum
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Re: Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

#24

Post by jhcoffeebum »

Well thanks Jim.
I believe what I said was “ I just bought this rod and am pretty sure is a Young built rod and would like any help
Possible.” And “ I bought what I’m pretty sure is a Paul H. Young bamboo and am looking to turn it over”.
Neither said I was sure it was. That’s why I asked opinions and was very receptive of all comments. I even Reached out to Bob Summers.
I am an enthusiast and love bamboos I guess a lot of it is their history and the magical beauty of it.
If in any way I’ve offended anyone, I sorry 🤓
But your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
They're already overcrowded from your dirty little war
Now Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason's for
And your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore

John Prine

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czkid
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Re: Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

#25

Post by czkid »

Its possibly a pre-WWII PHY marketed rod, though 2 pieces were not too common in his "stable". It's also possible that it is a taper unique to Paul's specifications. I own a goodly collection of PHY rods, both pre and post war, all of which are delightful casters, the post war rods being the most unique. If you have fished a number of his post war rods and enjoyed them, there's a good chance you'll enjoy the pre-war tapers. Pre-war being less "extreme" for many that aren't parabolic "nuts" like many of us. :rollin

Ralph

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quashnet
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Re: Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

#26

Post by quashnet »

jhcoffeebum: You've brought an interesting rod to our attention and allowed us to think about its origins. The idea that you have caused any offense is ludicrous.

Ralph: We know from Young's repeated statements that he personally preferred two-piece rods over three-piece rods. If you have found that pre-war Young-labeled rods tend to be three-piece rods, that would imply that Young did not have manufacturers like Edwards and Heddon make tapers to his preferred specifications. The evidence that I have found suggests that Young had access to rod sections built by the makers he represented as a dealer. Young assembled rods in various configurations and actions from those sections. He would assemble whatever the customer wanted from these sections, that were designed by their manufacturers, but would make suggestions when a customer wanted guidance. For example, in a letter written on June 8, 1942 to customer John E. Davis who wanted an 8'6" trout rod, Young convinced Davis that a less-portable two-piece rod would be a better choice than three-piece, because of weight savings. Young then wrote, "I have light, medium, and stiff actions in the 2 pc... These sticks are Edwards, and intended to go into their Edwards DeLuxe rods... They are as good as are in existence, and I am sure that I do a better job of ferrule fitting than a wage earner in a rod shop, and I have a personal interest in the rod's future." (A follow-up note indicated that Davis approved going ahead with the proposed rod). So Young did not influence the tapers of Edwards rods, but relied upon his superior assembly skills to satisfy customers who bought his Young-labeled rods.
Please visit and bookmark the Paul H. Young Rod Database
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Other rod databases: Dickerson , Orvis , Powell

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oldschoolcane
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Re: Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

#27

Post by oldschoolcane »

Very interesting, Jack.

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

#28

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

hello; so does anyone know in what year did p h y "scratch" the "itch" to build his very own "stix"?

regards, jim w

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quashnet
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Re: Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

#29

Post by quashnet »

1946. See the documentation here with quotations from Young's letter to his attorney, dated November 26, 1946: "After procrastinating for near 20 years we have finally kicked the traces and started making fly rods right from scratch." Not shared in this article is the fact that Young owed much to August O. Pernack, who set up the milling machine necessary to cut and taper bamboo strips. Pernack also set up the ferrule-making system that was used by the Young shop until Super-Z ferrules became available. See also (if you have access to it), Young's 1946 catalog titled "The Story of Your Rod."
Please visit and bookmark the Paul H. Young Rod Database
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Other rod databases: Dickerson , Orvis , Powell

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jhcoffeebum
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Re: Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

#30

Post by jhcoffeebum »

I just received the rod today and the ferrules seem to be turned from solid stock and fit very well with a loud “pop” when pulled apart after cleaning. They measure out at .282”
Each tip has seven eyes and the rod is 3 x 3 node placing. One tip is missing three eyes and the butt section has a stripper guide and two eyes above to the female ferrule.
The winding check looks to be aluminum and the hook eye above the grip is missing.
The butt section is 54” and both tips are 53 5/8” but I don’t see any evidence of either tip having been broken.
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But your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
They're already overcrowded from your dirty little war
Now Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason's for
And your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore

John Prine

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jhcoffeebum
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Re: Paul H. Young 9’ 2/2 piece?

#31

Post by jhcoffeebum »

From doing quite a bit if searches and looking at many bamboos, I believe this to be a South Bend built rod.
The winding check, reel seat and wraps all point that way.
I know wrong66 has posted copies of many South Bend catalogs and I’m going to PM him to see if South Bend had a listing for a 9’ 2/2 rod.
But your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore
They're already overcrowded from your dirty little war
Now Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason's for
And your flag decal won't get you into Heaven anymore

John Prine

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