Tiny flies -- how small?

A place to discuss the collecting and tying of classic flies, the tyers who made them famous, the tools, materials and techniques they used as well as the waters they were designed for. While classic is generally used to describe old things, classic is also used in the sense of first class or in the highest form. Therefore a fully dressed Salmon Fly, or a Carrie Stevens Streamer are just as much classics as a Chernobyl Ant would be. Enjoy the forum.

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GerardH
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Tiny flies -- how small?

#1

Post by GerardH »

In west-central WI, fishing small patterns is requisite if you want to consistently catch fish through the season -- tiny olives (the mayfly formerly known as pseudocleons, plauditis, etc.), tricos, midges are some common hatches we see. I love the challenge of tying and fishing patterns for these no-see-um hatches...despite declining eyesight and reduced hook-up percentage, it's a thrill for me. Right now I tie and fish #24 olive, griffith's gnat, and trico patterns and I have #26 hooks that I'm contemplating some small olive patterns...but how small is practical? I'm wondering how small folks here will tie and fish and what patterns those might be.

Thanks!

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Hellmtflies
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#2

Post by Hellmtflies »

At times during the winter months midges and tiny olives appear on some of the larger rivers here in Mt. I will tie and fish patterns down to #24s & #26s. But note that the window of opportunity during the day is short. Noon to about 2 pm for surface feeding. That and one needs to be able to pick their days regarding weather.

I have also tied down to a #32 but those seem really impractical to actually fish. Tying them is more fun than fishing them. :)

ted patlen
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#3

Post by ted patlen »

There are a few places in which I use small flies. But over the years I've moved away from # sizes of the manufacturers because of their inconsistencies. I like to refer to all flies by length. small to me is a body length of 1/8" ...whatever the shape and designated number they are.

Perry Palin
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#4

Post by Perry Palin »

Tricos in #24, up eye, with the point slightly offset to one side to improve hooking. I've had good results with 7x tippet and a slow, deliberate slip strike.

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GrsdLnr
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#5

Post by GrsdLnr »

My limit is #22, using Daiichi 1110's which are a 1X short ring eye hook.
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Norm Frechette
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#6

Post by Norm Frechette »

with fading eyesight my limit is now about a size 20

troutnut
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#7

Post by troutnut »

My limit is size 20 but sometimes a 22 in a bead head flashy back pheasant tail.

barebo
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#8

Post by barebo »

I'm envious of those who tie 20 and smaller. I'm stuck at 18's.

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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#9

Post by rsagebrush »

I'll go down to 22 but generally I'll tie on a larger hook with a smaller body.
I really like to fish 18's and 20's though, and I do pretty well on them, mostly Stewart Spyders, thread midges and RS2's.
I have fished down to 26 but that was a bit too challenging for me.

As far as tying I can go down to 24 with no major problems yet but tying them on on the stream can be a bit much.

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Flykuni3
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#10

Post by Flykuni3 »

Yeah, 22 maybe 24 depending on the hook is about it for me.

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Caneghost
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#11

Post by Caneghost »

In my Cumberland Valley days I tied and fished flies down to size 28. Here in the Catskills I usually fish 20 or 22 for the small" olives, though there" are some smaller bugs out there. One summer I had quite a lot of really interesting trico fishing, taking a number of fish in the 18" to 19" range on tricos. Size 24 flies were mandatory after the very first day of it as was 7X tippet. Later that summer I found the river covered with tiny flying ants. Tried my 22 flyers and was refused as the naturals were smaller. Size 24 still too big. Finally dug out my old size 28 hooks and tied those. Hooked a really good fish the next afternoon and then he was gone. Did the 7X break? No, the damned hook broke! After that I took to tying size 28 ants on size 24 hooks and had some success. Size 24 or 26 hooks will be the limit for me henceforth! I am not the "fooling them is the charm" guy, as I believe that meeting the challenge includes landing and gentle release.
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I have not had either the mini ant or trico fishing materialize since 2020.
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barebo
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#12

Post by barebo »

What amazes me the most regarding the miniscule flies you fish is how on earth do you track them in the midst of clouds of naturals in the air and on the water? Hendricksons, Sulphurs, Quill Gordons, etc. I can follow in the pack but these tiny guys? Even if I was able to tie a 22 or 24, beyond 15' I'm sure I'd lose the ability to follow it in the drift.

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GerardH
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#13

Post by GerardH »

barebo wrote:
07/25/22 07:32
What amazes me the most regarding the miniscule flies you fish is how on earth do you track them in the midst of clouds of naturals in the air and on the water? Hendricksons, Sulphurs, Quill Gordons, etc. I can follow in the pack but these tiny guys? Even if I was able to tie a 22 or 24, beyond 15' I'm sure I'd lose the ability to follow it in the drift.
Sometimes it's by guess and by golly -- if I see a rise in the vicinity where I think my fly is, I set the hook. More times than I care to admit, I pick up the line to cast and I have a fish on. But sometimes the light is right or the water isn't too broken where I can see the fly pretty well and watch the fish come up, inspect and either inhale or reject it. The latter happens a lot during the trico spinner fall...but it's still fun to watch.
Caneghost wrote:
07/25/22 05:56
I am not the "fooling them is the charm" guy, as I believe that meeting the challenge includes landing and gentle release.
I'm not sure where the two would ever become mutually exclusive. It's always imperative to bring the fish in quickly and employ proper release techniques -- that's the number one objective whether fishing streamers or #26 midge patterns. One should not negate the other.

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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#14

Post by GMflyf1sh »

Wehn I lived and Fished in Missouri we used to have a test at the end of the evening of tying on the smallest fly and landing a trout - 24 was it for me even thoughI did mange to hook a few fish on 26 and 28 - My 70 year old eyes and relexes will keep teh flies a lot larger

drifly
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#15

Post by drifly »

I fish a tail water in NW CT where the tricos are ridiculously small, when Tiemco stopped making 30 and 32’s I bought up what a local shop had left. I’ve also hit some late summer flying ant hatches here where your size 32 ant looked a size or 2 too big.

cebe
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#16

Post by cebe »

In front of my house tricos size 24-26 have been emerging and spinning for the last couple weeks. I use Mustad 94859 straight or ring eye hooks. The olives that follow are 20’s.
I use a magnifier light to tie these up but rely on bifocals streamside to tie them on. Usually takes a few tries to thread them on.

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Dave in Maine
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#17

Post by Dave in Maine »

barebo wrote:
07/25/22 07:32
What amazes me the most regarding the miniscule flies you fish is how on earth do you track them in the midst of clouds of naturals in the air and on the water? Hendricksons, Sulphurs, Quill Gordons, etc. I can follow in the pack but these tiny guys? Even if I was able to tie a 22 or 24, beyond 15' I'm sure I'd lose the ability to follow it in the drift.
I generally use a loop-to-loop connection between the leader proper and the tippet. On my side of the leader-end loop knot (I use a perfection loop), I apply a tiny dot of the roll-on foam indicator material. The little squares of foam are like 3/4 inch square; I can get a good half-dozen dots out of one square. It's easy to see and doesn't affect casting. I can see my indicator and that means I'm within 2 or 3 feet of my fly.
At small sizes I gravitate towards being a generalist - a size 24 Griffith's Gnat looks like a lot of things trout eat.
One thing that used to be popular on the Little Lehigh was the "backwards" trico tie, with what would have been the head of the fly atop the bend and the tail, such as it was, at the eye of the hook. Easier to tie and just as effective.

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Eperous
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#18

Post by Eperous »

"In the day" I've tied them 28's and 32's... simple thread patterns... even caught small trout, up 12"-16", if memory serves me correctly on Catskill summer waters, below NYC dams... now pushing 75, a 24 is the smallest size I tied and fish, which I can still see on tailwater flats... and even catch some nice (>20") trout on occasion...

Ed

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Silver Doctor
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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#19

Post by Silver Doctor »

I no longer fish flies below #18 but instead either tie a smaller fly on the hook or use a curved emerger style hook that works great.

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Re: Tiny flies -- how small?

#20

Post by bassman »

A few years ago tying 28-32 flies was something I really enjoyed doing just because I could do it. Never fished them but gave a lot away. That was when 32 Mustads were still around but they quit making them I believe. Now between hands that just aren't as steady as they used to be and eyes needing more help than simple reading glasses can give I've given up tying that small. I have a 32 on a magnet on my vise I've tried to tie a couple of times and just can't get a fly on there and keep the eye open so cut it off and try again. Used to do them with no major problems but at 78 those days are gone.
Here's a 26 and a 32...
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And a 32 trico
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