I can't stack deer hair...

[bassman]

A recent swap I'm in is deer hair mandatory and though it does not have to be stacked I really wanted to get Muddlers for the swap. I have had a terrible time of it and have tied and cut off about 25 flies trying to get a dozen I'd send in. I tried to switcch to a Goddard Caddis since I thought it would be easier but it wasn't. As deadline for mailing approaches I have 10 Muddlers for group and 2 extra Goddards that go to a different project group. Not long ago I sold a CD on deer hair flies and tying but when I watched it I still couldn't get it. My advice to self...Self, if you want Muddlers for your box besides those I already have...buy them.

[Brian K. Shaffer]

Nick - That Muddler will still catch fish - just not that many fisherman.
Mine look like that after 3 fish, and they don't seem too picky when hungry.
I think the profile is great. Ready and worthy.

And if the Goddard floats - you will fool any trout you put it in front of.

Bet they fall apart fast too huh. Surely I jest.
Both pass muster to this fisherman.

[ted patlen]

This is an original from Gapen's hand...your flies will work. If you want a tighter body of hair for the irresistible, push each successive group together together after you flair a bunch onto the shank. some people like to use a razor blade for trimming the hair.

[bassman]

Yep Ted, I've had several original Gapens and may still have some hiding somewhere. I know the flies coming from his shop were not works of art but very effective. I used them in evenings when the surface of the stocked trout lakes in MN lit up with activity and did well for me. I tried the pushing the hair together to make it more dense but it just didn't work for me. Didn't have a good stacker for the job either. I did trim with a razor but the Muddler should not have been cut down as much as I did. Looking at your pic of Gapen's fly reminded me of that. A sloppy trim is more called for on there. A couple of years I had an outbreak of mice in my den for a swap and doing just the hair without trying to work other materials in worked better for me.

[NshTrtBum]

Bassman

It's time to relax, take a deep breath, watch a video, and you should be fine.

You're letting the clock stress you out.

Peace,
Ntb

[bassman]

You are right NTB. I've broken off the deer hair for awhile and finishing up a couple dozen sports team theme swaps for a swap on another board. I couldn't just pick OU over OK State and be fair to OK teams so I just decided to do a run of each. Sooners are Crimson and Cream and Cowboys are Black and Orange. Close up macro photos sure show how poorly I laid my floss on compared to a lot of people like Norm does. Sure gives me a nice break from trying to pack and stack and shape deer hair though.

[thehersh]

i am getting better at it,just making little sz 12 bees for the ponds.Just tired of foam and have 100s of foam bugs.The fish like the bees just fine but they do get tore up.Tiny deer hair bugs are an incredible waste of time and material but are just so satisfying to tie.I make at least one a day and cant seem to stop.Have gone back to making bass bugs out of balsa and am having fun making them,Probably 3 hours at least on each one,I can make a premade foam popper in 5 minutes and they catch more than the balsa bugs but i dont care one bit.

[drifly]

May not be your inability to spin hair, unfortunately not all deer hair being sold these days is of very good quality for spinning either. I happen to have a friend who kills a few late season deer here in the NE. I go pick the patch I want, that high back winter deer hair, big strands and hollow works like a dream. If your deer hair is rather fine its probably a patch from lower on the flank and less effective.

[Bud]

Try spinning it in a dubbing loop. Then trim it. Makes for a very interesting profile.


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[Norm Frechette]

nick

PM sent

norm

[NshTrtBum]

Drifly,

You're sure making a huge point I'm having a hard time finding some really great comparadun hair for smaller flies. I have a small patch a friend of mine gave me since he's frightened to tie one. I have been improving my skills after reading posts here and Dave @East Redbud YouTube video.

Norm - you're an inspiration Thank You!

Ntb

[BDNGRD]

Made me sit down and work on Goddard patterns.

[boo4life]

As Drifly said, there is deer winging hair and then there is deer spinning hair. For example in the Cabelas /Bass Pro catalog for flytying materials they have Deer Belly Hair for winging and tails and Deer Body hair for spinning. Just fyi.

[5Stringtrout]

I have been tying for over 60 years, that being said, during the lock-down I undertook to tie some Dahlberg Divers and other deer hair bugs. I found that I needed to watch some videos and read some books and magazine articles. Two books that were helpful were "Tying and Fishing Deer Hair Flies" by Tim Jacobs and "Super Bass Flies" by Pat Cohen. The Jacobs book gives a great selection of different techniques and explains the difference between the "stacking" and "spinning" of hair. Cohen's book is post graduate work. Fly Tyer's Winter 2017 has an article by Barry Clarke that is called "Splitting Hairs" and explains different deer hairs. The Summer 2020 edition has an article by Eric Austin titled "The Versatile Muddler Minnow" How to tie this famous fly the right way. Gapen's original fly was designed to imitate a sculpin.
I also found that razor blades are useful. For the shaping and trimming of hair and for the scraping of mistakes off the hook. When you start tying these flies you will have to get used to cleaning the hair off of a hook that you spent the better part of an hour putting on it. The more I tied the better I got. Have fun.

[bassman]

Okay, right now it's deer season and I'm going to see about getting some hair if any of the relatives skin them out this year. For the most part most of the guys just take their deer to the butcher and let him cut and wrap it. I need to see if any are going to do their this year. Lots of good help and encouragement here and I'm going to be giving a good try this winter. Some of the work done by guys I've bought some from is unbelieveable but too nice to throw out and let a fish chew on it. So far the only work I've done with deer hair spinning is with no mixed colors, just natural. 5String talks about the difference between spinning and stacking and so far that's all I've done. I invest so much in fly room junk I may as well go ahead and get a good packing tool. The inside of the bottle plastic with a hole just don't do the packing job.

[thegubster]

Nick, if I can stack 'em then you cans stack 'em and you don't need any special tools other than your fingers/nails. Small bundles, push against your other hand and a few tight wraps then repeat. Twist 'n push, twist 'n push...

Forgive me, this pic is so old it's likely yellowed on the edges by now...)

[thehersh]

Nice,the main reason i visit here is to see the the old patterns as well as any tips.I am more and more into natural materials and classic designs.