Short 3-piece tapers?

[Canewrap]

I am making a short 3-piece rod (under 7ft) for small stream packability and while looking at published tapers in different books, realized that I could only find a few, very few, light-line 3-piece rod tapers under 7ft. Does anyone know an obscure source for these kinds of tapers? I checked the hexrod librarys, Mauer's book, Cattanach's book, the Lovely Reed, Gould's Tips and Tapers. I am enjoying adapting some longer tapers for this research and have worked out a taper for this one but was just wondering if anyone has other ideas since I want to make some more light 3-piece rods in the future. Thanks in advance.

[henkverhaar]

How about this thread: viewtopic.php?t=97768

[Canewrap]

I remember looking at that back when Jeff published it. I am adding it to my collection of 3pc tapers I have started putting together. Wonder is anyone ever built the unimpregnated version to see how it came out?

[trland]

I remember looking at that back when Jeff published it. I am adding it to my collection of 3pc tapers I have started putting together. Wonder is anyone ever built the unimpregnated version to see how it came out?

If you read through the thread again you'll see there were a good number of the little Pack Rods made. It's a great small rod taper that is more powerful than it has a right to be.

[Canewrap]

Powerful is right. Hexrod thinks it's a 9 weight, but no knock on Frank Stetzer (very thankful for the work he's done), but hexrod just doesn't seem to work well with characterizing 3pc rods.

[trland]

I’ve noticed that shorter rods tend to have lower stress curves at a given line weight. We made 1,2, and 3 piece versions of this taper and Hexrod actually shows slightly lower stresses in the one and two piece versions with the same dimensions. But changing the line weight to 9 still keeps the stresses in a reasonable range at 30 ft of DT line, although a bit high for my comfort (I just tried it in Hexrod.) FWIW, the rods cast a 4 or 5 wt line really nice and I prefer a 5 since it’s used in shorter casting situations.

[Canewrap]

It's a bit shorter than I have use for, but it has a very interesting stress graph and I can see myself making a 6ft version of it. Thanks henkverhaar for reminding me of this.

[Godfroy]

This is an interesting topic. Thank you to Henk for the link which I had not read before.

You mentioned Cattanach's book at the start. There are 10, sub 7 feet, three-piece tapers in that book. The only one I have built is the 6' 6", #4, which is one of my all-time favourites. It will cast a short line off the tip. Because, I presume, of the unusual butt taper which becomes parallel in front of the handle there is a strong parabolic-type thrust if one needs to cast a long line. I have already built two of them. I am working on another of the same taper but scaled up to a 7ft, 4in, #5. If I felt the need for a rod shorter than 6'6", I would have a look at some of those other Cattanach tapers.

Paul.

[Canewrap]

Godfroy, thanks for weighing in. Yes, I know about the short tapers in the Cattanach book, but I didn't have any feedback on how any of them handle, until you weighed in. Now, I will build myself a copy of the 6'6" 4wt, 3pc taper, since what you're describing is what I am looking for. Thank you.

[Godfroy]

Godfroy, thanks for weighing in. Yes, I know about the short tapers in the Cattanach book, but I didn't have any feedback on how any of them handle, until you weighed in. Now, I will build myself a copy of the 6'6" 4wt, 3pc taper, since what you're describing is what I am looking for. Thank you.

Good! I don't think you will be disappointed.

[creakycane]

This is an interesting topic. Thank you to Henk for the link which I had not read before.

You mentioned Cattanach's book at the start. There are 10, sub 7 feet, three-piece tapers in that book. The only one I have built is the 6' 6", #4, which is one of my all-time favourites. It will cast a short line off the tip. Because, I presume, of the unusual butt taper which becomes parallel in front of the handle there is a strong parabolic-type thrust if one needs to cast a long line. I have already built two of them. I am working on another of the same taper but scaled up to a 7ft, 4in, #5. If I felt the need for a rod shorter than 6'6", I would have a look at some of those other Cattanach tapers.

Paul.

I think that 6’6” 3 pc 4 wt of Wayne’s will make a great rod. The lighter, straight-butted short rods really load well in close, roll cast great and can still reach out to the degree any 6’6” rods should. By making the rod with the .25 butt, you only lose on being able to use the rod for hero casts or heavier applications. Wayne’s 6’3” Midge in his book is pretty stiff butted ( but not as stiff as the swelled-butted 6’3” rod George Maurer used to make, and claim to fish salmonflies with!).
I’ve batted this issue and various tapers/prototypes around with Bob Lancaster over the years, and the both the 2 and 3 pc rods in that 6’3” to 6’6” size seem to come out more pleasant erring on the light butted side. Long story short, Bob’s Baetis 3 pc has ( coincidentally) evolved to be very close to that Wayne’s 6’6” 4 wt 3 pc. We’re talking for small stream eastern trout, not salmon a la Gingrich!

One other note is that I seem to like the feel astream of the 3pc version vs 2 pc, all else being equal. Whether it’s the flex in the mid, the weight of the small ferrule providing sling shot feel or the stiffening of the rod 20 inches above the ventilated grip, I’m not sure.

Good luck with these rods and if you are in the Carolinas, pm me and you are welcome to try some variations out on my lawn trout anytime.

[Godfroy]

I think that 6’6” 3 pc 4 wt of Wayne’s will make a great rod. The lighter, straight-butted short rods really load well in close, roll cast great and can still reach out to the degree any 6’6” rods should. By making the rod with the .25 butt, you only lose on being able to use the rod for hero casts or heavier applications. Wayne’s 6’3” Midge in his book is pretty stiff butted ( but not as stiff as the swelled-butted 6’3” rod George Maurer used to make, and claim to fish salmonflies with!).
I’ve batted this issue and various tapers/prototypes around with Bob Lancaster over the years, and the both the 2 and 3 pc rods in that 6’3” to 6’6” size seem to come out more pleasant erring on the light butted side. Long story short, Bob’s Baetis 3 pc has ( coincidentally) evolved to be very close to that Wayne’s 6’6” 4 wt 3 pc. We’re talking for small stream eastern trout, not salmon a la Gingrich!

One other note is that I seem to like the feel astream of the 3pc version vs 2 pc, all else being equal. Whether it’s the flex in the mid, the weight of the small ferrule providing sling shot feel or the stiffening of the rod 20 inches above the ventilated grip, I’m not sure.

Good luck with these rods and if you are in the Carolinas, pm me and you are welcome to try some variations out on my lawn trout anytime.

Thank you very much for the endorsement. I am aware that my experience is limited, compared with many of you on this site. Although I have been fishing bamboo rods since the 1960s, I did not get my first USA-built rod until 2016 and I have only been splitting my own cane for just over a year.

That 6' 6" rod is ideal for the streams, small and surrounded with a canopy of trees in many places, where I do most of my fishing. The fish are not tiny. I catch a few over 15 inches every year but that is about as big as they get.

Thanks for the invitation! I have always enjoyed visits to the USA . My last time there was over 20 years ago, and connected with my profession at the time, but one never knows.

Paul.

[GANGGREEN]

This is an interesting topic. Thank you to Henk for the link which I had not read before.

You mentioned Cattanach's book at the start. There are 10, sub 7 feet, three-piece tapers in that book. The only one I have built is the 6' 6", #4, which is one of my all-time favourites. It will cast a short line off the tip. Because, I presume, of the unusual butt taper which becomes parallel in front of the handle there is a strong parabolic-type thrust if one needs to cast a long line. I have already built two of them. I am working on another of the same taper but scaled up to a 7ft, 4in, #5. If I felt the need for a rod shorter than 6'6", I would have a look at some of those other Cattanach tapers.

Paul.

I think that 6’6” 3 pc 4 wt of Wayne’s will make a great rod. The lighter, straight-butted short rods really load well in close, roll cast great and can still reach out to the degree any 6’6” rods should. By making the rod with the .25 butt, you only lose on being able to use the rod for hero casts or heavier applications. Wayne’s 6’3” Midge in his book is pretty stiff butted ( but not as stiff as the swelled-butted 6’3” rod George Maurer used to make, and claim to fish salmonflies with!).
I’ve batted this issue and various tapers/prototypes around with Bob Lancaster over the years, and the both the 2 and 3 pc rods in that 6’3” to 6’6” size seem to come out more pleasant erring on the light butted side. Long story short, Bob’s Baetis 3 pc has ( coincidentally) evolved to be very close to that Wayne’s 6’6” 4 wt 3 pc. We’re talking for small stream eastern trout, not salmon a la Gingrich!

One other note is that I seem to like the feel astream of the 3pc version vs 2 pc, all else being equal. Whether it’s the flex in the mid, the weight of the small ferrule providing sling shot feel or the stiffening of the rod 20 inches above the ventilated grip, I’m not sure.

Good luck with these rods and if you are in the Carolinas, pm me and you are welcome to try some variations out on my lawn trout anytime.

Which part of the Carolinas are you located? I'm in upstate SC and learning what I can about split cane rods. Have a friend in the same area that builds them and we fish together when we're able.

[Don Andersen]

Just finished a 6’0” 3 pc. 2 tip Scalloped hollow 4 wt. rod for a customer. Casts great.
Built the way he wanted.
Want the taper, give me a shout.

Don

[Canewrap]

Hey Don, sent you a PM. -Bill

[halh68]

Bill,
I've got a wonderful 6' 3pc 3wt rod from Jim Ifert. Ask him if he is willing to share the taper with you. I'll bring it to the Bash .

[Canewrap]

Hal, would love to cast your rod at the Bash. Is it 6ft or 6ft 3inch? I have the taper for a rod Jim did a few years ago that is a 6ft 3inch, 3wt, 3pc. I cast his version of it and it is a wonderful back country rod.

[chsparkman]

The PHY Midge, 6' 3" 4wt taper works very well as a 3-piece. My friend Steve Christopherson and I both made one and they cast "like butter".

[ibookje]

The PHY Midge, 6' 3" 4wt taper works very well as a 3-piece. My friend Steve Christopherson and I both made one and they cast "like butter".

Sounds very interesting
All Young clones I had (summers 275 and a quad version of the Perfectionist) were two piece. The Midge was always on my list but couldn’t pull the trigger because of being two piece

[Godfroy]

Regarding the PHY Midge, here is a comparison with the 6' 6", Cattanach taper which I mentioned in #8, above.