Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

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oxbowjohn
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Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#1

Post by oxbowjohn »

I am fortunate to have several vintage bamboo fly rods and a couple dozen vintage reels I need help matching the reels to the rods and in a couple cases line weight.

Rods:
Dickerson (Bergman) 7.5 foot 3 piece (2 tips) no weight noted on Rod
Paul Young Parabolic 8 foot 6 inch 5 Oz 3 tips
Wes Jordan (Orvis) 8 foot 4-3/8 oz
Battenkill 8 foot 4-1/8 oz

Reels:
Orvis Lightweight, Featherweight, Fly weight and CFO IV

Can anyone assist in the correct reel to rod for balance and line weights?

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quashnet
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#2

Post by quashnet »

Your description of the 8'6", 5 ounce Paul Young rod sounds like a Parabolic 17, or similar. All the reels you list would be, for me, too light for this rod model, with which I use a reel that weighs about 6-3/4 ounces (an old Hardy St. George 3-3/8"). I also like a Pflueger Medalist 1495-1/2 on this rod. Some anglers are less concerned about "balancing" a rod and reel than others, so experiment freely to see what might work best for you.
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Other rod databases: Dickerson , Orvis , Powell

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Flykuni3
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#3

Post by Flykuni3 »

Like quash says you have some very light reels there, suitable for short, light cane rods. I use both a Fly and Featherweight on rods 6' -- 6 1/2'.I don't have a CFO IV but a III, and it balances 6 1/2' -- 7'' for me. Now, there are guys fishing such reels on heavier rods such as the ones you have, but I like a balance point at the top end of the grip. My forearm told me this.

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ibookje
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#4

Post by ibookje »

I’ve stopped the ‘balancing the reel’ many years ago. I just use the reel what I got, mostly lightweight reels like the Hardy LRH and various Orvis CFOs. Also like the old Sage 504L. As long as there is room for a DT plus some backing.

That Dickerson rod is a 761510 (I got a copy) and I think it looks great with a Hardy LRH, Orvis CFO III / IV or the Sage 504L

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Caneghost
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#5

Post by Caneghost »

I like a nice balance in or near my hand, but perfect balance is not necessary for comfortable fishing. Generally, I can fish a CFO IV on several 5 weight 8-foot, 2 piece cane rods and still be comfortable, though these balance better with a classic Hardy St. George or Perfect reel, both 3-3/8". Your 7 1/2' rod might like either a 3" St. George or a 3-1/8" Perfect. These classic reels weight an ounce or two more than your CFO IV and thus balance better on rods in the classes you mention. You don't mention line weights, so capacity and your desire for backing enter into this picture too.

If you find a current stocking Hardy dealer, you should be able to try fitting current models of the Perfect and Bougle` reels to get a feel for balance. Weights do not vary greatly from vintage models of the same reels.
...a wink of gold like the glint of sunlight on polished cane...

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oxbowjohn
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#6

Post by oxbowjohn »

Hi,

The Paul Young rod has a 17 on the nomenclature. I appreciate your responses. Bob Summers called me today, he is an old family friend we had a candid discussion. Being from Michigan I had good tutors Hallas Halladay, Clarence Roberts taught me to tie the local fly patterns - Great Gentlemen.
My fly-casting tutors A. Anderson and D. Charlton and father they should all be in the history of FF in Michigan. We open our Fly Fishing Club officially next week YEAR 106.

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quashnet
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#7

Post by quashnet »

OK then, another good suggestion for appropriate reels and line weights would be "whatever Bob S. recommends."

It would be great to have enough of a description of your Para 17 to determine whether it is already listed in the Paul H. Young Database or could be added as a new listing. The photo below shows Para 17, serial number 2226, which has a "wet" parabolic tip marked GBF and a lighter dry fly tip marked HCH. For this rod, I like a WF8F line for the wet tip and a WF7F line for the dry tip.

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Please visit and bookmark the Paul H. Young Rod Database
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Other rod databases: Dickerson , Orvis , Powell

oxbowjohn
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#8

Post by oxbowjohn »

Had my Paul Young Para17 and the Dickerson Bergman inspected by a quality rod builder. The Dickerson is pristine and am willing to sell is there a preferred site to list this rod?

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quashnet
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#9

Post by quashnet »

Your options include:

• Discuss with Bob Summers, with whom you already have contact, and who knew Lyle Dickerson.
• Discuss with Marc Bourgea through his Lyle Dickerson Site at dickerson.rods@gmail.com
• Other dealers like Marc Aroner, Carmine Lisella, Nate Stansfield, and more, are easily found online.
• The Classifieds section of this forum. Read and follow the guidelines carefully.
• eBay
Please visit and bookmark the Paul H. Young Rod Database
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Other rod databases: Dickerson , Orvis , Powell

Godfroy
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#10

Post by Godfroy »

Balancing rods and reels is a personal matter. I use the lightest reel (which I can afford or have available) that gives me the line capacity I want but clearly not everyone agrees with that approach.

For the Paul Young rod, here is some information from a 1957 Young catalog. Paul.

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Flykuni3
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#11

Post by Flykuni3 »

I just hate seeing old prices in vintage catalogs. And don't get me started on vintage real estate ads for Southern California, advertising beach front land at $25 an acre.

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BigTJ
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#12

Post by BigTJ »

Sell all your reels and get a 3” St George or two.

With all respect to the other poster given in my opinion a 3 3/8 is a bit of a tank that is best on an 8.5 to 9’ 7 wt rods while the 3” balances an 8.5’ 5 oz rod perfectly. It’s a 4/5/6 reel. Mine is stellar on everything from a 7.5’ 4 wt to a Granger 9043.

John
Last edited by BigTJ on 04/19/24 15:20, edited 1 time in total.

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moregrayling
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#13

Post by moregrayling »

BigTJ wrote:
04/18/24 18:09
Sell all your reels and get a 3” St George or two.

With respect to the other poster a 3 3/8 is a bit of a tank that is best on an 8.5 to 9’ 7 wt rods while the 3” balances an 8.5’ 5 oz rod perfectly. It’s a 4/5/6 reel. Mine is stellar on everything from a 7.5’ 4 wt to a Granger 9043.

John
This.
Best,
Christian

Them, that knows nowt, fears nowt!

oxbowjohn
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#14

Post by oxbowjohn »

Done my best to capture the PY rod nomenclature - three tips one marked dry
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quashnet
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#15

Post by quashnet »

This appears to be a PHY Para 17 rod buit in 1949 that was refinished (possibly twice, in April 1957 and May 1972) and re-inked by Bob Summers. I can't piece together the entire story from the separate photos. "S. Anderson" looks like it may be a middle initial and last name. Perhaps there is a first name not shown here. Walter Anderson was a rod-buying customer of Paul H. Young's in 1949, but I don't know if his middle initial was "S." The build date of March 1949 makes this a very early Para 17. The earliest example of this model that I know of was built in October 1948. The dry fly tip seems to have been added later, in April 1950. It is possible that the marking on the dry fly tip is original and not re-inked by Bob S. As always, I would like to know more information about the rod. Thanks!
Please visit and bookmark the Paul H. Young Rod Database
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Other rod databases: Dickerson , Orvis , Powell

oxbowjohn
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#16

Post by oxbowjohn »

FS Anderson was a member of Oxbow he went by Andy Anderson - was a buyer for Chrysler during WWII. Was a prolific fly fisherman on the Ausable and Manistee rivers. Paul has seen the rod and recalls refinishing as well as Andy Anderson. We have a large Steelhead mounted above the fireplace that Andy caught with this rod on the Manistee in the late 60's.

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quashnet
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#17

Post by quashnet »

Thank you for the additional information. There are strong connections between the Chrysler Corp. and Paul H. Young, most notably through K.T. Keller, who was President of Chrysler when Andy Anderson's Para 17 was built, and shortly thereafter became Chairman of the Board. One version of Young's Parabolic 15 trout rod model was known as the "Keller DeLuxe."

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Please visit and bookmark the Paul H. Young Rod Database
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Other rod databases: Dickerson , Orvis , Powell

St Vrain Angler
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#18

Post by St Vrain Angler »

oxbowjohn & quashnet…

I’ve never even handled a PHY rod, but your exchange is just one example of why the Forum is such a treasure. Many thanks.

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Holland
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#19

Post by Holland »

No kidding, I'm kind of blown away...

Yes, thanks.

oxbowjohn
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Re: Vintage Bamboo match rods to reels

#20

Post by oxbowjohn »

Thanks'

Trout fishing has been in my family since the 1930's my dad taught me to worm fish on northern Michigan streams like the Magin with spin rod, mosquito net, worm box. Many a time we had to retreat from black bears but we always caught big brookies and chubs. That was back in 1960. In 1956 he bought into the Oxbow Conservation club fly's only that was my christening. George Mason lived at the cabins just north of our camp. I fished with his grandsons many times.
As members passed I have been left with the historical tomes. Some of which are 36 mm movies from the 1930's-40-s of the Dodge family exiting Ausable river boats with a portable bar on rivers edge for cocktails in full dress-!@!

Fred Bear was always a regular at the April opener with a new movie of his latest bow hunt a man small in stature but with a dead eye.

There is great wisdom in the quote " Fishing isn't just catching fish, it's letting go to get a firmer hold."

Most of the founding members were involved in the Detroit automobile industry (as was I) they used their jobs as a means to the ends of fly fishing!

Cheers!!!

Anyways attached is the 1921 Club pamphlet with limited pages showing how to get there, membership, and good advice.

The Club has been maintained per the original founders designs and conservation principles and will be in the future.

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