Ed Payne Rod Examples
Moderator: TheMontyMan
Ed Payne Rod Examples
#1Okay, you serious collectors, I'd love to see images of your Ed Payne rods. We're talking early ones, pre-1914. Payne worked on his own for less than two decades after leaving Thomas, Edwards & Payne. Any examples out there--?!
Common on, guys. These are right there along with Hawes & early FE Thomas rods. Post your photos!
Pat
Common on, guys. These are right there along with Hawes & early FE Thomas rods. Post your photos!
Pat
Last edited by pcg on 07/24/08 14:50, edited 1 time in total.
Author:
"Playing With Fire, The Life and Fly Rods of E.W. Edwards"
"D Is For Dingley, The Master Reelmaker" (co-author, Brian Taylor)
"Playing With Fire, The Life and Fly Rods of E.W. Edwards"
"D Is For Dingley, The Master Reelmaker" (co-author, Brian Taylor)
Ed Payne Rod Examples
#2Early Jim or late Ed? Messed with or not? I don't know.
Appears to be Calcutta, 9' 3/2/2 with one agate and one steel tip top. The tip with the agate is three inches short. This rod has standing ring guides throughout -- whether it was made that way or not, I'm not sure, but the wraps, black tipped with red (wine?) appear to be original, unless they were replaced many decades ago.
The reel seat is stamped "EF Payne, Maker, Highland Mills, NY" on four lines. I took many shots of the logo but I couldn't get one to come out well. The rod weighs 4.5 oz. and has a slow, wet fly action.
Appears to be Calcutta, 9' 3/2/2 with one agate and one steel tip top. The tip with the agate is three inches short. This rod has standing ring guides throughout -- whether it was made that way or not, I'm not sure, but the wraps, black tipped with red (wine?) appear to be original, unless they were replaced many decades ago.
The reel seat is stamped "EF Payne, Maker, Highland Mills, NY" on four lines. I took many shots of the logo but I couldn't get one to come out well. The rod weighs 4.5 oz. and has a slow, wet fly action.
Ed Payne Rod Examples
#3Lon, a beauty. Nice ferrules--particularly the males. I'd guess it really is by Ed, although there was undoubtedly transitional use by Jim of his father's components. Most of the early rods that Jim made used Tonkin--some were even flamed. So the Calcutta points toward earlier crafting by Ed. Wrap colors are the reverse of the Kosmic. A lovely piece. Many thanks for posting these!
Author:
"Playing With Fire, The Life and Fly Rods of E.W. Edwards"
"D Is For Dingley, The Master Reelmaker" (co-author, Brian Taylor)
"Playing With Fire, The Life and Fly Rods of E.W. Edwards"
"D Is For Dingley, The Master Reelmaker" (co-author, Brian Taylor)
Ed Payne Rod Examples
#4Aside from the short tip, it's all original. The standing ring guides I believe are nickel silver. This is a beautiful piece from Ed! T120
Ed Payne Rod Examples
#5Thanks. I found the guides must curious of all. I have seen them on old bait rods, but not on fly rods.
Ed Payne Rod Examples
#6Lon, how are the rings held up? They almost look like vertically-set hookkeepers. And if the wraps appear original, then the rings should be as well, right? Of course, as you suggest, it could have been re-wrapped decades ago.
Author:
"Playing With Fire, The Life and Fly Rods of E.W. Edwards"
"D Is For Dingley, The Master Reelmaker" (co-author, Brian Taylor)
"Playing With Fire, The Life and Fly Rods of E.W. Edwards"
"D Is For Dingley, The Master Reelmaker" (co-author, Brian Taylor)
Ed Payne Rod Examples
#7Pat, I cleaned some old varnish off the rings and it became clear that they are actually open, with a very slight twist. Here are some pictures that show them up close, plus a better shot of the Payne stamping. The guides do not appear to be hookkeepers; they are pretty thick.
Lon
Lon
Ed Payne Rod Examples
#8Extremely cool. I have never seen guides like those. Anyone else--? I wonder if these are guides that Payne made, or had custom made? Certainly nothing in the Leonard or Kosmic heritage that could have predicted these...
They also look like they could catch fine silk line on occasion.
Always a pleasure to see something new & unexpected. Great shots!
They also look like they could catch fine silk line on occasion.
Always a pleasure to see something new & unexpected. Great shots!
Author:
"Playing With Fire, The Life and Fly Rods of E.W. Edwards"
"D Is For Dingley, The Master Reelmaker" (co-author, Brian Taylor)
"Playing With Fire, The Life and Fly Rods of E.W. Edwards"
"D Is For Dingley, The Master Reelmaker" (co-author, Brian Taylor)
Ed Payne Rod Examples
#9The nickel silver guides are what Ed called "tournament" guides. They allowed the lines to wisk quickly through them. There's less surface area on an upright guide like these than on a regular one, and the cast will shoot straighter and with less friction. Who said all the high tech stuff is now!!?? I've also seen these on Leonards, but they were bronzed.
Ed made the guides. I had an exact rod like this but without the tipping. It was wrapped black/cream jasper. Everything else was identical.
I hope you're not planning on fishing this museum piece.
T120
Ed made the guides. I had an exact rod like this but without the tipping. It was wrapped black/cream jasper. Everything else was identical.
I hope you're not planning on fishing this museum piece.
T120
Ed Payne Rod Examples
#10T120,
Thanks for the information about the guides. I looked through several years of Lang's catalogs and all of my reference books and couldn't find other examples.
Lon
Thanks for the information about the guides. I looked through several years of Lang's catalogs and all of my reference books and couldn't find other examples.
Lon
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Ed Payne Rod Examples
#11Did to be my imagination, or the ferrules are identical to the prefire Leonards??.
Re: Ed Payne Rod Examples
#13Ed or Jim? Not sure. 9’ 3/2, 5oz. 16.8/10.7 ferrules. All sections are full length and perfectly straight. The cane is somewhat light and possibly Calcutta (some staining). The reel seat ring is soldered sheet with knurling fore and aft. The pocket is also knurled as is the seat near the cork. The grip is very slightly ridged and 5.25” long. Interestingly, the “E.F. Payne, Maker Highland Mills, N.Y.” stamp appears near the bottom of the seat, opposite the pocket (as on some early Thomas and Leonard) rather than near the grip (as on some early Paynes). The ferrules are each waisted, as is the brass collar on the tip tube. The ferrule fit is like other lightly fished Paynes I’ve handled, just amazing. One of two ferrule plugs remains and it separates from the female with a distinct suction ‘pop.’ The wraps are all uniformly starved and mostly intact, but obviously dry as one guide is popped (shown) and another winding frayed. Although this rod must have been properly stored for many decades, time has marred what was a beautiful finish, but the varnish remains hard. The snakes are reverse twist and bronzed with distinct paddle feet. They show almost no signs of wear, but the tip tops must have been exposed to a little moisture as I needed to gently use 0000 steel wool to remove some roughness. The canvas bag is dry and feels stiff, but it’s otherwise in remarkable condition. The experience of casting this rod with a silk DT5 was so dizzying that I stopped after a few minutes to sit and stare at this remarkable instrument. Its smooth, medium action throws beautiful, slow compact loops. I can feel the taper that would later become Jim’s 208 in this rod.
Last edited by Dwight on 07/09/23 18:50, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ed Payne Rod Examples
#14Here's my oldest Payne circa 1925-28.
It's a #205 (light--as in cane color); 8 1/2 ft.; 3/2; 4.27 oz. It has been restored, but interestingly, it never had red intermediate wraps which were standard then. No ghosting is present.
16/10 ferrules; butt cap stamp reads "E.F. PAYNE, MAKER, HIGHLAND MILLS, N.Y." in four lines with a 'clipped corner' box. 5" cigar grip; bright cap and ring d/l reel seat over a cedar filler. Guides are modern replacements. For 4/5 wt. lines.
Scott Z.
It's a #205 (light--as in cane color); 8 1/2 ft.; 3/2; 4.27 oz. It has been restored, but interestingly, it never had red intermediate wraps which were standard then. No ghosting is present.
16/10 ferrules; butt cap stamp reads "E.F. PAYNE, MAKER, HIGHLAND MILLS, N.Y." in four lines with a 'clipped corner' box. 5" cigar grip; bright cap and ring d/l reel seat over a cedar filler. Guides are modern replacements. For 4/5 wt. lines.
Scott Z.
Flyman615
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
Re: Ed Payne Rod Examples
#15Scott, thanks for your post. That’s a fine looking rod! I’m glad we revived this thread. Hopefully others will add to it. I love the look of that reel seat. Do you know the type of wood?
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Re: Ed Payne Rod Examples
#16As I stated above---cedar.
Scott Z.
Scott Z.
Flyman615
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
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Re: Ed Payne Rod Examples
#17"I'd love to see images of your Ed Payne rods. We're talking early ones, pre-1914. "... Pat I'm not 101% sure this guy fits the bill but I'll try... My 8' 3/2 200L, lovely 4wt rod indeed.
She doesn't get fished much (it's my issues) and I need to part with her but that's not going too well...I've tried! Maybe some other time..
She doesn't get fished much (it's my issues) and I need to part with her but that's not going too well...I've tried! Maybe some other time..