Casting DTs vs WFs

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laxdad
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Casting DTs vs WFs

#21

Post by laxdad »

overmywaders,
No fair!!! Someone showed you videos taken of me casting on the West Branch. If I didn't have tailing loops I'd have no loops at al!!! How come if a fish is rising 60' out I'm 3' short and if it's 40' I'm still 3' short? Anyway, it's a great pastime that enjoyed mightily for the first 40+ years of my life and after my hiatus I'm looking forward to the next 40+. (10?) 1947 seems like yesterday when I tied and threw my first fly on a flyrod......Thank you all for your interest...George

mvbrooks
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Casting DTs vs WFs

#22

Post by mvbrooks »

Before you spend a bunch of money on a "name brand" fly line, try Scientific Anglers' Supreme II lines. I love the WF4 and WF5. The tips are perfect, they float high, the finish doesn't crack or fall apart, and they shoot forever. You likely wont see them at your local fly shop (too cheap), but you can get them at WalMart or other discount stores for around $15. Outside of genuine silk, they are the best line I have ever used.

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HERMES2069
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Casting DTs vs WFs

#23

Post by HERMES2069 »

Mike,
Its funny you say that. 2 years ago, Wallingmart was clearing out the SA lines, end of season. I bought 12- 4 & 5 wt lines for $4 apiece.
They are always ing my tackle bag. I agree great casting lines.
Phil

laxdad
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Casting DTs vs WFs

#24

Post by laxdad »

Mike,
Thanks for the Walmart reference. I sure will give 'em a look. By the way, I just finished wrapping your/my blank. Really looking forward to early Setember...George S

poudre1
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Casting DTs vs WFs

#25

Post by poudre1 »

mvbrooks wrote:Before you spend a bunch of money on a "name brand" fly line, try Scientific Anglers' Supreme II lines. I love the WF4 and WF5. The tips are perfect, they float high, the finish doesn't crack or fall apart, and they shoot forever. You likely wont see them at your local fly shop (too cheap), but you can get them at WalMart or other discount stores for around $15. Outside of genuine silk, they are the best line I have ever used.
Mike, I agree with you. They are great lines and I think they float about as well as the newer lines. I particularly like the WF line which has the same front taper as the DT but doesn't overload your rod on longer casts and line pickup.

I also have been using the Lefty Kreh line as it is the same but with the willow color. My local Sportsmans Warehouse has them on sale @ $25 quite often.

I used to use the Peach 444 quite a bit but I don't think it floats as well, even when dressed in an hour it will start sink .

Dave

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Casting DTs vs WFs

#26

Post by senior »

I love this line,I also bought up a supply on closeout, but have not needed to use many of them ----- I have not been able to step on / yank on /or otherwise beat my old lines into retirement ,the only way they seem to go is from tying on multi numbers of new leader butts,or four or five years of hard use in bright sunlight. I cut the D. T.s in half ,keep the new half and the one I am using, religiously wound on a three inch or larger diameter spool immediatly after use. Also I keep it out of heat ,and store it out of direct sunlight.-----Just wipe the surface scum off with a damp soft, towel every few days,stretch it out, and its back in service. When I start fishing silk,I will carry this as a backup line .

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Arctic Grayling
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Casting DTs vs WFs

#27

Post by Arctic Grayling »

The local Sportsman's Warehouse had some of the SA Supreme lines on sale for $19.99 most of the winter. I picked up several of them. All of the lines that were on sale are now gone. Only the DT lines must have been on sale because all of them that I bought were double taper.

For a little more they also had the SA Ultra 4 DT lines on sale. It too seems to be a good line.
Seward, Alaska

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Casting DTs vs WFs

#28

Post by senior »

One of the silver linings of the years going by,and memorys fading,( to me) is that this gives me the reason and motivation to enjoyably re-read articles and books that impressed me , and founded the development of the ideas and principles I hold today. So many interesting theorys ,facts or or just fictional fantasy ,that I vaguely remember,but hold to be truths, came from odd sources that will never show up on the internet or some $60,000.00 trivia game. The single quote from Sports Afield ,s angling editor of the 60's ,Jason Lucas "the longer the casting rod and shorter the fly rod ,the more expert the angler" is certainly debatable and probably silly,however it is typical to some of the notions I still hold on to. In order to prove long standing "wisdom", I sometimes look at statements and ideas forwarded by these authors on other issues,to see how they tie in or harmonize. Master fly caster ( Lee Wulff ) and others ,that I cannot source ,have echoed the style of using slow sinking synthetic or undressed silk lines /tippets as an often superior tactic in fishing the dry fly.In this post and many others I see the high float ability of the tippet expressed as a quality mark often used to distinguish a good fly line . Anyone use sinking lines in dry fly tactics?I have had good success using the S.A. cheap grade (slow sinker-Wallmart) in fast riffles with drys ,such as small ants (alowed to sink ocassionaly).Also I sometimes use it on windy days to shear thru the air and stay on target.Obviously it does not mend as well, however its denser /smaller diameter might give less drag problem,especially in shallow ,fast ,riffles.

riverfloggin
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Casting DTs vs WFs

#29

Post by riverfloggin »

I'd like to try the SA Supreme 2, but I know that the SA Lefty Kreh line is a pretty solid line. So far I haven't seen much difference between that one and my SA Mastery line, except for the welded loop. Nice feature, but not worth an extra 4o bucks.

Instead of using a slowly sinking line, I just tie on flouro tippet and don't dress the dry fly with floatant. Depending on the bug that'll keep it somewhere between the film and a couple inches below the surface.

BobB
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Casting DTs vs WFs

#30

Post by BobB »

If you have read Ed Engle's "Splitting Cane", you might recall a chapter in which he evaluated several lines for use with bamboo rods.
His general consensus was the Cortland 444 and the SA Air Cel Supreme 2 ranked highest in several categories.

See ya', I'm headed to WallyWorld!

Bob

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Cane Head
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Casting DTs vs WFs

#31

Post by Cane Head »

Air Supreme has long been one of THE recommended line for canes rods. I don't know if the current generation of Supreme holds comparason to the older generation from the 80's/90's which were smaller in diameter for a given line weight than the higher grade SA lines. Bob Corsetti was always making a pitch for the Supreme in his catalogs during the 90's as were others who were cane "pushers." Along with SA's Supreme, the Ultra series were also given the nod along with Cortland's peach 444. All three remain highly flexible in cold water conditions where as the "coated lines" like 444SL and 444 SL Lazer developed the memory of an elephant in cold water conditions.

As for DT vs WF, I prefer the DT in small stream pocket water conditions and the WF in most other conditions of medium to large waters. While status quo is 30' of a particular line model in DT and WF line are the same, I do find differences in handling between the two. I usually let the rod decide for me which lines it likes the best after casting a plethora of WF/DT/Long belly lines in various weights. Matter of fact, only I only have one rod that I actually like the feel of a DT on and that's an Orvis 7' Deluxe - a 444 4DT seems to work just fine in short casting environments. Anything else a 444 5WF seems to make it sing.

Cane

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Casting DTs vs WFs

#32

Post by senior »

As much as I like the S.A. double taper,on fiberglass, my long time intentions are to mirror the archives of history . Effieciant or not, silk flylines , and perhaps silkworm gut leaders ( if they become practical to obtain) are what I hope to see in my future. Practacality may be a virtue ,however, to me , practacality would seem sinfull shooting an aluminum arrow from a classic English longbow,or a 5.56 Rem.out of an old Kentucky squirrel rifle.In this light,synthetic lines and fiberglass fly rods ARE traditionally mated.---- One line that I have vowed to try on my glass rods is both traditional (for glass) and appearently state of the art in design .This line first caught my attention advertised in the Cortland (2003) proshop catalog on page 12.It is sold only in 333 ,weight forward configeration--- #5 or 6 wt. Wether this design lives up to it's advertised purpose is something I have to try out in my fiberglass era. This line is banded in alternating white and black rings ,that to me, looks like a natural snake pattern ,from the front taper all the way thru the running line . It is recommended for nympth,low light dry fly.or instruction purpose. I can hardly wait to try it and see, if I can hook a trout ,on a long line cast to the other shore ,by carefully watching for the bands to momentarially blur (like the spokes on a moving bike wheel) .Could this concept bridge the gap between traditional and strike indicator technique ? This idea seems a stroke of genius ,but will it really work? This technique could possibly be an answer not only for low light strike detection,but an aid for those whose vision is not quite what it used to be !

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Casting DTs vs WFs

#33

Post by senior »

As much as I like the S.A. double taper,on fiberglass, my long time intentions are to mirror the archives of history . Effieciant or not, silk flylines , and perhaps silkworm gut leaders ( if they become practical to obtain) are what I hope to see in my future. Practacality may be a virtue ,however, to me , practacality would seem sinfull shooting an aluminum arrow from a classic English longbow,or a 5.56 Rem.out of an old Kentucky squirrel rifle.In this light,synthetic lines and fiberglass fly rods ARE traditionally mated.---- One line that I have vowed to try on my glass rods is both traditional (for glass) and appearently state of the art in design .This line first caught my attention advertised in the Cortland (2003) proshop catalog on page 12.It is sold only in 333 ,weight forward configeration--- #5 or 6 wt. Wether this design lives up to it's advertised purpose is something I have to try out in my fiberglass era. This line is banded in alternating white and black rings ,that to me, looks like a natural snake pattern ,from the front taper all the way thru the running line . It is recommended for nympth,low light dry fly.or instruction purpose. I can hardly wait to try it and see, if I can hook a trout ,on a long line cast to the other shore ,by carefully watching for the bands to momentarially blur (like the spokes on a moving bike wheel) .Could this concept bridge the gap between traditional and strike indicator technique ? This idea seems a stroke of genius ,but will it really work? This technique could possibly be an answer not only for low light strike detection,but an aid for those whose vision is not quite what it used to be !

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Arctic Grayling
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Casting DTs vs WFs

#34

Post by Arctic Grayling »

bobbeegee wrote:If you have read Ed Engle's "Splitting Cane", you might recall a chapter in which he evaluated several lines for use with bamboo rods.
His general consensus was the Cortland 444 and the SA Air Cel Supreme 2 ranked highest in several categories.

See ya', I'm headed to WallyWorld!

Bob
I read that chapter and that was the reason that I bought the SA Air Cel Supreme 2 lines. And they do cast well.

At the end of that chapter I think that Mr. Engle also had praise for the Wulff Long Belly line. I think this line fishes very well on my production bamboo rods, especially my GV-8040. I also really like the Wulff TT lines on my heavier Granger rods. My experience is that the Wulff TT and the Cortland Peach are nice lines on bamboo, fiberglass, and graphite rods.
Seward, Alaska

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overmywaders
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Casting DTs vs WFs

#35

Post by overmywaders »

Senior,

If you want something that brings back memories, I have a Cortland '333' still in the ribbons. This is from before all the folderal of micro bubbles and tapered finishes -- the braided line is tapered and covered with a nice, even, level clear plastic coating. They don't advertise it as "floating" but as "non-sinkable".

Just a thought. I'll trade for a peach DT 444.

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Casting DTs vs WFs

#36

Post by senior »

Wow, I am going to keep this in my thoughts right alongside and contending with the banded 333 Cortland. I have recently secured an old fashioned display case ,and hope to use it soon as sort of a mini -museum /storage area,for classic tackle. Currently,I am in a two bedroom apartment thru "winds of change".If conditions ( space) improve ,I would also like to secure one of those revolving shelf display cases ,that were customery for displaying fishing tackle, in the tradition of the post W.W. II bait- shops.,and hardware stores . A displayed variety of items would be periodically placed in view(that line) ,and available for actual field use,rather than be cosmetic. A gem like this line would perhaps be featured / used with an early glass classic rod of the age. A fishing trip,using such gear,could turn into a nostalgic,or historical event ,and perhaps be interesting to those that never experianced the romance of the period. I was one to luckily draw from our classic tradition ,the ideas and dreams , presented thru magazines such as Sports Afield, Outdoor Life, Field and Stream, also the outstanding dream weavers that served as the authors and editors of the age.In this stream of thought,from magazine articles, thru revealed secrets, in the works of classic fly fishing authors ,some interesting tactics on fly fishing have been offered ,that perhaps can only be experianced ,and enjoyed thru the use of period correct tackle. I mentioned ,previously a technique suggested by Lee Wulff on the slow sinking fly line tactics,another that comes to mind is Joe Humphry's nympthing technique,in which he advises the use of a level,air-cell type, fly line ,certain leader dimensions,and specific shot placement for nympthing .This is typical to ideas ,perhaps deleted ,in updated,revised ,classic books ,and will be lost to history,to never be- re-enacted just for the fun of it.( Think how much fun Robert Redford ,brought to many of us, with his realistic, time authentic production. )I would think,somewhere out here in cyberspace,there are many "not yet bit " by the bug ,casual viewers of this forum who check these threads out to become informed ,and become knowlegable enough to jump in and be a player .To both those in this position,and to those who may be knowlagable to fly angling trivia of the past, I offer this above explanation of my interests. Now thru this forum, this wonderfull artifact shows up ! Shall I rise to this splendid offering? Taxed as I am right now, I will have to wait for a bit ,and see if the opportunity remains for another day.However,if I had the peach in hand,In a heartbeat!

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Re: Casting DTs vs WFs

#37

Post by Dwight »

I just finished a do-it-yourself flats trip to the Florida Keys. I fished DT plastic and DT dacron woven oil/varnish lines. I hooked a large bonefish that I would not have hooked if I was using a WF line. A group of four large bones were moving quickly by and I dropped a crab near them with a 50’ cast. One fish inspected and rejected it and they began moving away from me. I picked up the entire length and re-cast shooting an additional five feet of line landing the crab immediately behind them and all four fish turned and descended on the fly. One grabbed it. If I was using a WF line, stripping the head closer for a re-cast would have been a necessity in that situation and the shot would have been lost. It was a beautiful, large Keys fish that I’ve found hard to come by in 25 years of self guided trips down there. One example of the benefit of using the humble DT line (:

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Re: Casting DTs vs WFs

#38

Post by LeeO »

As has been said many times, DT and WF lines with standard tapers such as 333 or 444 are exactly the same for the first 30’. Not similar. Exactly the same per the manufacturer. DT are being phased out for no good reason at all and now we lose the ability to flip a line and extend its life. I’d also add that $100 fly lines are a waste of money for most casters and working on casting techniques would improve casting more than any line. A really simple example - is your fly reel pointing in the same direction at the start and end of your cast? Or do you rotate it outward on your back cast? If it is the later, you really need to fix that
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JohnMD1022
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Re: Casting DTs vs WFs

#39

Post by JohnMD1022 »

It’s the same as bird shooting, e.g.,you kill far more birds inside 30 yards than you ever kill outside 30 yards. I once killed a mallard at 74 paces. Does that make me 65 yard wing-shooter? No, it makes me a lucky SOB that morning.

And despite what Schweibert says about “hookups at 90 feet were not a problem”, it’s all BS.

We catch far more fish inside 40 feet than we catch outside that distance.

And, at those distances, the DT line is the weapon of choice.

And, to reinforce that, catch a fish at 40 feet, and your leader accounts fo12 feet or so, so you’re working with 30 feet of line, or less.

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