Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

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J Gustavsson
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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#41

Post by J Gustavsson »

Here are some reels with the serial number. As you can see two of the earliest has the number stamped on the winding plate
first reel 2 3/4" wide 1905.
second: 3 3/8" 1905,
third: 3 1/8" 1905,
fourth: 3 3/8" 1905,
fifth: 3 3/8" 1905,
sixt: 3 1/8" 1912,
seventh: 2 3/4" 1910,
eight: 3 3/8" 1912. ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

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Brian K. Shaffer
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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#42

Post by Brian K. Shaffer »

So many hot examples... my eyes are on fire ::)

The spool missing the handle... do you know the story ?
Or maybe the frame minus a piece ?

What a joy to see this many Hardy's with serial numbers.
" There's no such thing as a fly fisherman wholly satisfied with his casting performance. " ~ Jim Green (1971)
" Just once I wish a trout would wink at me. " ~ Brian Shaffer

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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#43

Post by MFRS »

It would help to solve the mystery if someone could share a Hardy Uniqua with the registered No.B. 434648 stamped to it.

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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#44

Post by J Gustavsson »

Brian K. Shaffer wrote:So many hot examples... my eyes are on fire ::)

The spool missing the handle... do you know the story ?
Or maybe the frame minus a piece ?

What a joy to see this many Hardy's with serial numbers.
Yes I know the story, the winding plate without a handle is from a piece that I might do some work on when/if I get the inspiration. The handle was very loose so I took it off, the frame is broken so the reel also needs a new frame. Got it all taken apart and all the pieces including the handle in a drawer. The broken frame was beyond salvation So I made a test trying to solder it together with some aluminium solder but the frame melted before the solder.. I still have it in my metal trash bin.
The 3 3/8" with a piece of the rim missing I might repair some day...

However the numbers are quite obvoiusly some kind of serial numbers. The later they get the higher the number. But I havn't seen any stamped serial numbers on reels later than the ones with the 1912 check.
And not on any reels prior to the ones with the 1905 check.


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MFRS
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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#45

Post by MFRS »

I have been reviewing the catalogue and based on Page 210 in the 1928 catalogue the date of manufacture was stamped on the rod with a letter followed by a number. I don't see them changing their system for the reels, so I must conclude that the usual six-digit number following a letter must be the date of manufacture of that reel. I believe someone earlier on this board came up with this conclusion and it seems a practical conclusion for me too.

Some beautiful reel on this post lately guys.

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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#46

Post by J Gustavsson »

I have found a few things regarding these numbers that is a bit strange. Some reels wiťh the 1905/6 check have higher numbers than some with the 1912 reels. I guess that there was some overlap or transition between these two types so maybe still not very strange after all..
For example I have a 1912 reel with the sn 51493 and then a 1910 reel (1906 check) with sn 58330.

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J Gustavsson
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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#47

Post by J Gustavsson »

MFRS wrote:I have been reviewing the catalogue and based on Page 210 in the 1928 catalogue the date of manufacture was stamped on the rod with a letter followed by a number. I don't see them changing their system for the reels, so I must conclude that the usual six-digit number following a letter must be the date of manufacture of that reel. I believe someone earlier on this board came up with this conclusion and it seems a practical conclusion for me too.

Some beautiful reel on this post lately guys.
Hi MFRS, I cannot see how these numbers could refer to a date. I believe it just refers the amount of reels made.

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J Gustavsson
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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#48

Post by J Gustavsson »

More examples found on the internet.
The highest number I have found so far is 77032 on a 1912 reel that I have. And the lowest is a four digit nr: 9954 in a 1904/5 reel

One comment on these pictures. Pic nr3 shows a reel with the 1912 check. However it has the earlier style frame found on reels made before 1910 with the square non contoured windows.
So probably a very early 1912 reel or the maker just had an old frame that he decided to use.
So many variables in these old reels.ImageImageImageImageImageImage

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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#49

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

J Gustavsson wrote:
09/16/22 01:17
MFRS wrote:I have been reviewing the catalogue and based on Page 210 in the 1928 catalogue the date of manufacture was stamped on the rod with a letter followed by a number. I don't see them changing their system for the reels, so I must conclude that the usual six-digit number following a letter must be the date of manufacture of that reel. I believe someone earlier on this board came up with this conclusion and it seems a practical conclusion for me too.

Some beautiful reel on this post lately guys.
Hi MFRS, I cannot see how these numbers could refer to a date. I believe it just refers the amount of reels made.

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hello, j;
and then we have a multitude of perfects with no number discernible which suggests the theory of copyright numbers in foriegn countries might be correct.
regards, jim w

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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#50

Post by J Gustavsson »

Well.. If so, why are the numbers different on every reel we see? If they where copyright numbers surely we would see the same number coming up over and over again. I havnt seen any reels sharing the same number..



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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#51

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

J Gustavsson wrote:
09/17/22 10:34
Well.. If so, why are the numbers different on every reel we see? If they where copyright numbers surely we would see the same number coming up over and over again. I havnt seen any reels sharing the same number..



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good reasoning on your part, hardy is so much entertainment partially because of the questions. still, so many perfects having no number.
regards, jim w

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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#52

Post by J Gustavsson »

Seabowisha Salmo T wrote:
J Gustavsson wrote:
09/17/22 10:34
Well.. If so, why are the numbers different on every reel we see? If they where copyright numbers surely we would see the same number coming up over and over again. I havnt seen any reels sharing the same number..



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good reasoning on your part, hardy is so much entertainment partially because of the questions. still, so many perfects having no number.
regards, jim w
Yes.. but that's easier explained with makers forgetting or simply skipped stamping the serialnumber than the theory about it being some copyright numbers for foreign countries.
All of my reels I have bought from the UK. Of course they could have been shipped back and forth from some collector abroad or what not. But most of my reels where like well used (or even abused) estate findings so probably spent all of their life in the UK. Ie not exported.
I believe Hardy stopped the routine of stamping these (serial) numbers when they switched to the 1917 check . Maybe because it didnt work out so well? people forgetting etc..
I just find it very unlikely that it has something to do with copyright. If so we would have seen the same numbers coming up at least twice..


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Seabowisha Salmo T
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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#53

Post by Seabowisha Salmo T »

J Gustavsson wrote:
09/17/22 15:34
Seabowisha Salmo T wrote:
J Gustavsson wrote:
09/17/22 10:34
Well.. If so, why are the numbers different on every reel we see? If they where copyright numbers surely we would see the same number coming up over and over again. I havnt seen any reels sharing the same number..



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good reasoning on your part, hardy is so much entertainment partially because of the questions. still, so many perfects having no number.
regards, jim w
Yes.. but that's easier explained with makers forgetting or simply skipped stamping the serialnumber than the theory about it being some copyright numbers for foreign countries.
All of my reels I have bought from the UK. Of course they could have been shipped back and forth from some collector abroad or what not. But most of my reels where like well used (or even abused) estate findings so probably spent all of their life in the UK. Ie not exported.
I believe Hardy stopped the routine of stamping these (serial) numbers when they switched to the essing sufficient rods in original 1917 check . Maybe because it didnt work out so well? people forgetting etc..
I just find it very unlikely that it has something to do with copyright. If so we would have seen the same numbers coming up at least twice..
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to have any statistic likelihood, would need a large data base which probably won't be forthcoming.
we encountered the same difficulty in analyzing f e thomas rods with single number stamped on the butt, obtaining enough data to form a logical explanation. locating and posseessing sufficient number of original not reworked rods was a challenge.
regards, jim

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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#54

Post by Short Tip »

J Gustavsson wrote:
09/17/22 15:34
Yes.. but that's easier explained with makers forgetting or simply skipped stamping the serialnumber than the theory about it being some copyright numbers for foreign countries.
All of my reels I have bought from the UK. Of course they could have been shipped back and forth from some collector abroad or what not. But most of my reels where like well used (or even abused) estate findings so probably spent all of their life in the UK. Ie not exported.
I believe Hardy stopped the routine of stamping these (serial) numbers when they switched to the 1917 check . Maybe because it didnt work out so well? people forgetting etc..
I just find it very unlikely that it has something to do with copyright. If so we would have seen the same numbers coming up at least twice..


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I think this is it right here. These serial #s show up in a small window of time - One could reasonably conclude that their use was abandoned for numerous reasons.

We tend to view these questions as holding Rosetta-stone type clues, if we could just figure them out. It's always best to start with the money - How would a number help the bottom line? Quality control? Worker accountability? Inventory control? Whatever it was, it likely was judged to be more expensive than helpful, the time taken to hand stamp a number could be used to make more reels as demand increased. These folks had no real desire to record their legacy, they were making a living.

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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#55

Post by J Gustavsson »

Not to mention the effort to keep track of the serial numbers... It's actually quite hard unless you have some sort of automated system.. and it takes time. You sometimes see reels with some numbers overstamped because the maker took the wrong number stamp then corrected it.
It's also quite hard to stamp a five digit number in a straight line without some kind of guide.


All this taken into consideration it's easy to see why they abandoned the stamping of serialnr's
Many times the simplest explaination is the most likely

Btw & wonder how many reels they made in a day? Anyone knows?

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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#56

Post by MFRS »

IMO it would be likely that a patent # would be stamped to an item (reel)to help protect the product-to-patent connection. I do find that the patent # being stamped to a reel was abandoned ~1922, but the catalogue stated the 1912 patent (UK patents lasted 16 years) in 1928. I wonder if they abandoned stamping the reel to reduce production time/reel, and the catalogues claimed the parts were "duplicated, that by merely stating the patent # to the picture covered the protection of the reel through its distribution of the catalogue. I wonder if the early 1912 catalogues stated the 1912 patent numbers. Can anyone here confirm if the patent # 24245 and 9261 was printed in the Hardy catalogues anytime between 1912 -1919?

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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#57

Post by Brian K. Shaffer »

Perhaps many a late night caused the uneven serial numbers... after a few shots of rotgut whisky.
Or months of it.
" There's no such thing as a fly fisherman wholly satisfied with his casting performance. " ~ Jim Green (1971)
" Just once I wish a trout would wink at me. " ~ Brian Shaffer

Use the SEARCH for justification and reasoning.

J Gustavsson
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Posts: 641
Joined: 10/04/13 03:07

Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#58

Post by J Gustavsson »

MFRS wrote:IMO it would be likely that a patent # would be stamped to an item (reel)to help protect the product-to-patent connection. I do find that the patent # being stamped to a reel was abandoned ~1922, but the catalogue stated the 1912 patent (UK patents lasted 16 years) in 1928. I wonder if they abandoned stamping the reel to reduce production time/reel, and the catalogues claimed the parts were "duplicated, that by merely stating the patent # to the picture covered the protection of the reel through its distribution of the catalogue. I wonder if the early 1912 catalogues stated the 1912 patent numbers. Can anyone here confirm if the patent # 24245 and 9261 was printed in the Hardy catalogues anytime between 1912 -1919?
If these numbers where patent numbers, please explain why all the reels we see have individual numbers? The early 1905 style reels are in the 9000 range and then all the way up to the 70000 range in the late 1912 reels
If patent numbers shouldnt those number correspond to one or maybe two patents?
I have showed at least ten reels with different numbers. I can probably dig up thirty more all with different numbers. I havnt seen any two reels with the same number..
Im my humble opinion.. I would say they are serial numbers.

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J Gustavsson
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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#59

Post by J Gustavsson »

Brian K. Shaffer wrote:Perhaps many a late night caused the uneven serial numbers... after a few shots of rotgut whisky.
Or months of it.
Ha ha.. you are probably right ImageImage

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Re: Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

#60

Post by MFRS »

J Gustavsson wrote:
09/25/22 13:09
MFRS wrote:IMO it would be likely that a patent # would be stamped to an item (reel)to help protect the product-to-patent connection. I do find that the patent # being stamped to a reel was abandoned ~1922, but the catalogue stated the 1912 patent (UK patents lasted 16 years) in 1928. I wonder if they abandoned stamping the reel to reduce production time/reel, and the catalogues claimed the parts were "duplicated, that by merely stating the patent # to the picture covered the protection of the reel through its distribution of the catalogue. I wonder if the early 1912 catalogues stated the 1912 patent numbers. Can anyone here confirm if the patent # 24245 and 9261 was printed in the Hardy catalogues anytime between 1912 -1919?
If these numbers where patent numbers, please explain why all the reels we see have individual numbers? The early 1905 style reels are in the 9000 range and then all the way up to the 70000 range in the late 1912 reels
If patent numbers shouldnt those number correspond to one or maybe two patents?
I have showed at least ten reels with different numbers. I can probably dig up thirty more all with different numbers. I havnt seen any two reels with the same number..
Im my humble opinion.. I would say they are serial numbers.

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In this statement I only refer to the patent numbers 24245 and 9261 stamped to many Perfect reel frames. These were patents on the 1912 pawl design in the UK and were stamped on many reels. The reason for the other 5 - 6-digit numbers stamped to many Perfect wind plates are a mystery.

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