Hello and thoughts on this hardy perfect

steel2afly · Post by **steel2afly** » 10/06/08 17:15

Hello all. As it goes "long time lurker" only seldom post. Quick intro. My name is Kevin and I live in a small northern california coastal town. My username should tell you my main interest! Got the classic reel bug a couple of years ago and have to thank all the experts on these pages for all the info and help they have given me, and probably lots of money saved also! Havent really had anything to offer til now. So I picked this reel up last week. Its a Hardy perfect 3 7/8". Ive been trying to educate myself on hardys and have been doing alot of searching to find out more info on this particular reel. So heres what Ive come up with and feel free to correct me and add any info PLEASE! It has a 1912 check, strap over tension screw, white ivorine? handle, nickle silver agate line guard( which has two cracks, bummer) and has hardys pat written on it, Has circular hardys alnwick patent logo on winding plate. The spool has 4 cusps and a locking nut. All parts are marked with a number 3, Now heres where I have a couple of questions. The inside of the winding plate is marked 3 P. The inside of the cage has the marks 3 and below that 7 6989. The 3 and the 7 appear to be slightly smaller case letters than the 6989. The 3s on all parts are matching. Now the foot. Its a smooth brass foot aproximatly 3 3/16' long held in by four screws. Its not dovetailed in and has a letter J stamped on on the base of the foot on the spool side. Lots of stamps on this one! So any ideas on the J or other numbers. Doing my research it seams as though the reel seems to be original parts wise? The J on the foot is kinda throwing me off though. The reel works GREAT! The tension screw was froze up but was able to get it going again no problem, the cracks in the agate are kind of a bummer but oh well. Did a very light cleaning following bulldogs vinegar bath method, allowed it to air dry, gave it a wipe down with a silicone free guncloth and that is the extent of my cleaning. Im pretty happy with this reel and think I may have lucked into a nice one here. So what do ya think? Hope these pictures work! Thanks in advance for any help and info anyone can give me. Kevin

Sparquero · Post by **Sparquero** » 10/06/08 18:20

Very nice reel, excellent and hard to find check & it cleaned up real nice!
Letters & numbers are probably only a way for the reel maker to keep track of the parts. Other than the initials of the senior reel makers which are identified on Hardy's website, Hardy had a reputation in those days of hiring apprentices and then letting them go just when they are finished their indentureship and will have to be paid more money. I believe there was not much consistency with numbering amongst the apprentices, many probably stamped the reel parts with whatever came to mind and Hardy did not seem to care as long as the finished product upheld the standard.
Too bad about the agate, they are available for a price and could be replaced by a couple of reel repair people mentioned on this board, although if the cracks cannot be felt with a Q-tip and do not affect the fly line then I would just fish it as is. That reel will probably last another 100 years.
Great size for steelhead!

WatercolorMan · Post by **WatercolorMan** » 10/06/08 22:29

Welcome Kevin

You are off to a great start, perfect reels are so fun. Do you have a rod to put it on yet ?

Alan

bulldog1935 · Post by **bulldog1935** » 10/07/08 03:33

that is about as nice as they get, but I guess the foot is bent, which is tough on brass of that heavy section - is it riveted or held on with screws?

steel2afly · Post by **steel2afly** » 10/07/08 04:01

Thanks guys. Perhaps it was late in the day and the apprentices had a nip or two of scotch a bit early and got carried away with the stamps! Alan Ive got a new Meiser on the way and had him make it with a seat that would accomadate larger reel feet. And I will be building up a couple of new rods also with larger seats. Not bamboo however, one addiction at a time at this point. Bulldog Looking closer at the foot it is slightly bent! But nowwhere near what the closeup picture makes it look, I think there is some macro zoom distortion going on in that picture. It is held on with four screws. I dont think its bent enough to be a problem getting it on a rod. Do I sense a possible solution brewing in your minid Bulldog with that question?? Thanks again guys. Kevin

MFRS · Post by **MFRS** » 10/08/08 01:11

This check is actually called the "New Patent Compensating Check" and I suspect the 76989 is its Patent #, the 7 and 8 seem to be a smaller font so I think the different punch was sometimes mistakedly used; the numbers were important for the maker and the patent. I have a 1921 Perfect stamped "Hardy's Patent 24245" on check side.

Very nice reel steel2afly, I recently had an alloy hardy on brackish water and I had cleaned it earlier and did not put a new protectant on it. I fished it and it started chalking up so I cleaned it, let it dry and applied liquid wax to it, buffed it and it is well protected from the environment now. The reel foot sometimes has a patent # stamped on it so the J may contribute to an earlier reel size identification, just my guess but I found that Hardy when makers stamped something on a reel it always led to a reason.

MFRS

turtledoc · Post by **turtledoc** » 10/08/08 03:29

Steel2afly - The 1912 check Perfects with grey agate are my favorite perfects, and yours is a GREAT example....it's got eveything going for it....very nice condition, but not too nice to use on occasion

.

Regarding the internal numbering, I've owned a few and seen many circa 1910-15 Hardy Perfect and St George reels with these 5 or 6 digit numbers and have never seen one with the same number, I don't know with any certainty what they mean though, if anything.

It isn't the check patent though (that wasn't a bad guess MFRS), but the patent 24245 that is later stamped on Hardy reels was the patent for the "New Compensating Check" applied for in October 1910 and first seen in the original St George and Perfects with checks like yours (usually referred to as the "1912 check").

A great reel that should sing a beautiful reel when a hot steelie is on the other end of the line

Thanks for sharing the pics !

Mark B

bow river · Post by **bow river** » 10/08/08 03:46

for a older hardy reel , i think you got the reel with the nicest check , this is a reel you can use and feel good for it's been used and i'd bet it's caught some fine fish in it's day , the foot is a easy fix , i have done lots , you see that on alot of older reels ,

the agate is not a bummer my friend , no big deal as you can pick up a new one and have it installed for around $50 , me i'd put a nice dark red one in it , i have a thing for red agates

for such a fine reel it needs you to fish it and enjoy it and mostly give it some TLC , well done on such a fine reel , i always like the writeing around the screw for the spool on these older hardy's , you also have a nice handle , your +++ are way above the few things that need to be done to the reel

steel2afly · Post by **steel2afly** » 10/08/08 04:33

Thanks for all the added information gentleman. As said Ive mostly been a lurker for a while but with this reel I thought I just might have something worth sharing. Im definatly very happy to have obtained this reel. And as many have suggested it will certainly be put to use out on the river. While it does have its negatives for me the positives are far greater. I couldnt be happier. For now Im going to leave it as is, put her on a rod and get to some fishing! The check certainly does have a sweet sound to it and should definatly sing and I look forward to hearing its song. Thanks to all who post on this forum, the knowledge gained here was a great help in the purchase and history of this reel. Being the new blind squirrel in the woods I think I found my first acorn! Hopefully it wont be the last. Good fishing to all. Kevin

FWdB · Post by **FWdB** » 10/08/08 09:17

Very nice reel Kevin! I love those early Pefects, but I must warn you that most likely many more acorns will follow as a result of frequently visiting this particular section of the forum. Been there, done that...

MFRS · Post by **MFRS** » 12/29/08 15:29

steel2afly wrote:Hello all. As it goes "long time lurker" only seldom post. Quick intro. My name is Kevin and I live in a small northern california coastal town. My username should tell you my main interest! Got the classic reel bug a couple of years ago and have to thank all the experts on these pages for all the info and help they have given me, and probably lots of money saved also! Havent really had anything to offer til now. So I picked this reel up last week. Its a Hardy perfect 3 7/8". Ive been trying to educate myself on hardys and have been doing alot of searching to find out more info on this particular reel. So heres what Ive come up with and feel free to correct me and add any info PLEASE! It has a 1912 check, strap over tension screw, white ivorine? handle, nickle silver agate line guard( which has two cracks, bummer) and has hardys pat written on it, Has circular hardys alnwick patent logo on winding plate. The spool has 4 cusps and a locking nut. All parts are marked with a number 3, Now heres where I have a couple of questions. The inside of the winding plate is marked 3 P. The inside of the cage has the marks 3 and below that 7 6989. The 3 and the 7 appear to be slightly smaller case letters than the 6989. The 3s on all parts are matching. Now the foot. Its a smooth brass foot aproximatly 3 3/16' long held in by four screws. Its not dovetailed in and has a letter J stamped on on the base of the foot on the spool side. Lots of stamps on this one! So any ideas on the J or other numbers. Doing my research it seams as though the reel seems to be original parts wise? The J on the foot is kinda throwing me off though. The reel works GREAT! The tension screw was froze up but was able to get it going again no problem, the cracks in the agate are kind of a bummer but oh well. Did a very light cleaning following bulldogs vinegar bath method, allowed it to air dry, gave it a wipe down with a silicone free guncloth and that is the extent of my cleaning. Im pretty happy with this reel and think I may have lucked into a nice one here. So what do ya think? Hope these pictures work! Thanks in advance for any help and info anyone can give me. Kevin

I had to resurrect this thread as I came upon new information that I feel explains the numbers stamped on this reel, I know steel2afly and others who are owners of these classic reels will benefit and appreciate their classics , probably, even more. I found that some, if not all, Hardy reels were registered based on the name of the reel. For example, some provenance from Hardy Angler Guides, as follows:

1. The word "Silex" is registration # 317879
2. The word "Uniqua" is registration # B434648
3. The phrase "Silex Major" is registration # 557604
4. The word "Perfect" (registration # 76989?) To which I can only speculate but based on the other numbers, this can , to me , be the only reasonable reason to stamp such a number to a reel, patent #'s are self explanatory. The Hardy were engineers and knew the importance of protecting everything concerning their products as they had much competition from other big fishing tackle makers. My opinion is the J on the foot is the early foot patent, the # 3 ensured all parts returned together to form the completed reel, "P" was the makers stamp, and the 76989 was the registration # for the word" Perfect".

WatercolorMan · Post by **WatercolorMan** » 12/30/08 00:11

Great info on the # we keep seeing.

So when you say Hardy reels were registered, where are they registered. Patent office ?

MFRS · Post by **MFRS** » 12/30/08 04:42

WatercolorMan wrote:Great info on the # we keep seeing.

So when you say Hardy reels were registered, where are they registered. Patent office ?

It is not a patent # so it would have to be some government registry office, not sure of anything though; I will look through the books I have for any additional info but am not optomistic about finding more that I will get any more info than what I currently found.

Bruce Day · Post by **Bruce Day** » 12/31/08 14:02

"Registered" refers to United Kingdom Trade Marks Registry. While not stated, I assume it refers to a registration of the name HARDY, although it may refer to PERFECT, PRINCESS or other Hardy brands.

The notification "Registered" or "Reg. T. M. Office" is required for the name owner to take advantage of the legal benefits registration provides.

MFRS · Post by **MFRS** » 06/09/09 16:11

MFRS wrote:
steel2afly wrote:Hello all. As it goes "long time lurker" only seldom post. Quick intro. My name is Kevin and I live in a small northern california coastal town. My username should tell you my main interest! Got the classic reel bug a couple of years ago and have to thank all the experts on these pages for all the info and help they have given me, and probably lots of money saved also! Havent really had anything to offer til now. So I picked this reel up last week. Its a Hardy perfect 3 7/8". Ive been trying to educate myself on hardys and have been doing alot of searching to find out more info on this particular reel. So heres what Ive come up with and feel free to correct me and add any info PLEASE! It has a 1912 check, strap over tension screw, white ivorine? handle, nickle silver agate line guard( which has two cracks, bummer) and has hardys pat written on it, Has circular hardys alnwick patent logo on winding plate. The spool has 4 cusps and a locking nut. All parts are marked with a number 3, Now heres where I have a couple of questions. The inside of the winding plate is marked 3 P. The inside of the cage has the marks 3 and below that 7 6989. The 3 and the 7 appear to be slightly smaller case letters than the 6989. The 3s on all parts are matching. Now the foot. Its a smooth brass foot aproximatly 3 3/16' long held in by four screws. Its not dovetailed in and has a letter J stamped on on the base of the foot on the spool side. Lots of stamps on this one! So any ideas on the J or other numbers. Doing my research it seams as though the reel seems to be original parts wise? The J on the foot is kinda throwing me off though. The reel works GREAT! The tension screw was froze up but was able to get it going again no problem, the cracks in the agate are kind of a bummer but oh well. Did a very light cleaning following bulldogs vinegar bath method, allowed it to air dry, gave it a wipe down with a silicone free guncloth and that is the extent of my cleaning. Im pretty happy with this reel and think I may have lucked into a nice one here. So what do ya think? Hope these pictures work! Thanks in advance for any help and info anyone can give me. Kevin

I had to resurrect this thread as I came upon new information that I feel explains the numbers stamped on this reel, I know steel2afly and others who are owners of these classic reels will benefit and appreciate their classics , probably, even more. I found that some, if not all, Hardy reels were registered based on the name of the reel. For example, some provenance from Hardy Angler Guides, as follows:

1. The word "Silex" is registration # 317879
2. The word "Uniqua" is registration # B434648
3. The phrase "Silex Major" is registration # 557604
4. The word "Perfect" (registration # 76989?) To which I can only speculate but based on the other numbers, this can , to me , be the only reasonable reason to stamp such a number to a reel, patent #'s are self explanatory. The Hardy were engineers and knew the importance of protecting everything concerning their products as they had much competition from other big fishing tackle makers. My opinion is the J on the foot is the early foot patent, the # 3 ensured all parts returned together to form the completed reel, "P" was the makers stamp, and the 76989 was the registration # for the word" Perfect".

Steel2afly, hope you are okay that I brought this thread to life again.
I just had to resurrect this thread as there have been so many numbered 1912 checks lately. I have another theory, and I think this is spot-on.
The numbers for the 1912 checks are:

# 76989 (Above)
# 68094
#58402
#57810

I think that these numbers place a date for these reel, the same as the rods have been numbered. There is no list as it is missing, probably, like many of the reel makers on their list. Since Hardy seldom used numbers beyond 100,000 (see rod #'s), it seems Hardy may have discontinued that current numbering system soon after # 76989.

If you could add a 1912 check number to this, please do. It would be unrealistic to have a low number in the 1912 check unless it was preceded by a letter, if my theory is correct.
Gary

pcg · Post by **pcg** » 06/10/09 02:42

Gary,

As you know I just acquired a 1912 check Perfect w/ #57810. And Hardys confirmed on Monday of this week that it's a 1911 reel. You write, "I think that these numbers place a date for these reel." I may be dense (no, let's rephrase that: I am dense) but don't see how to turn these 5-digit numbers into dates. Help!

Pat

cdmoore · Post by **cdmoore** » 06/10/09 03:36

Being that the reel is going to be used and not put on a shelf, it's no problem to cure the bend. You will need a short piece of stout, medium diameter

that fits the radius of the bottom of the foot (you don't want it too small or the hose clamps will be misshapen when cinched down tight), 4 strong metal hose clamps, a high quality screw driver that fits the hose clamps perfectly, padding (1" wide masking tape works pretty well), and some patience. Make sure your

is about 6 inches longer than the reel foot on either side (18 inches total is about perfect) so you can grasp it in your hand or let it sit across your legs with the reel hanging down. Put some tape in the middle of the

the length of the reel foot. 2 layers is usually good. Put the reel foot down on the tape and then tape down the unbent side of the foot with a few wraps around both foot and

. Masking tape can tear, so don't let go of your reel. Slide one hose clamps down over the foot/

combo, one up near where the foot joins the reel (the thick part of the foot). Then slide the other over the end of the foot, but pointing the other tightening direction (so they are opposing) and not quite to the very end, about 1/4" in from the very end. Clamp these down very tight and keep an eye out for tape tear. If it starts to tear, undo, fix, redo. Might need to add or change tape. And make sure the foot is centered over the

. You can't create enough pressure to flatten the radius of the foot bottom, but you can create enough pressure to straighten the foot, i.e. bend it, and possibly the wrong way. Work slowly. Now you're ready to start fixing the bent side. Repeat as for the unbent side, BUT, after you get the first one up snug over the thick part of the bent side, put the second hose clamp (opposing direction) right up next to the one you just put on. Tighten slowly but surely until you see some change. It will be hard to notice and accomplish at this thickness. Work slowly and deliberately. Get a good screwdriver. You don't want to slip or blow out the screw head. Move the hose clamp down one half of its own width and repeat until you get to the end of the foot. Another option is to get enough hose clamps (alternate opposing directions) to completely cover the foot on both sides. I find that the spacing gets cramped, though. If you go that route, be sure to tighten from the thick part down. If you tighten the end of the foot first, where it is thin, you will create a

in the foot that is difficult to remove.

This method has worked for me without any short or long term damage that I have noticed. If your foot has a twist, that is a different story and I would recommend sending to Bill Archuletta or similar.

I've never tried heating the foot first.

C

cdmoore · Post by **cdmoore** » 06/10/09 03:39

This is great. I've never seen the "J" before. I have seen several reels with "A" or "W", but not yet "J". For this reason, I doubt it has something to do with a foot patent, since my feet look to be perfect matches to yours. I would guess they are batch or maker IDs of some sort.

C

MFRS · Post by **MFRS** » 06/10/09 04:01

Pat, Hardy's kept a log of their rods by way of a numbering system where, for instance, rods numbered A55753-A66152 were built in 1911. You look at the reel numbers and they could easily have been recorded via the same system. This list, I do believe did existed for the reels but, has not become public, for whatever reason. The recording/numbering of reel seems to have been dropped after the 1912 check and this list could easily have been lost. As the rod list was kept current, it did not get lost, and this could just be a priority decision of the head of that department.

Hardy's targeted the decision makers in the world, the rich and famous, I think placing a number to a rod/reel, in itself, makes that item seem unique to owners (there is only one in the world with its number). Also, when someone buys it, it is easily tracked for insurance/ repair/ownership reasons. To match up a generic reel to this rod would seem to down-grade the outfit, but to match a one-of-a-kind reel to a one-of-a-kind rod rod, well, this would be what would get the wealthy/powerful patrons to buy.
Gary

PS. Pat, you're not dense

pcg · Post by **pcg** » 06/10/09 04:35

Thanks. BTW, the foot on my reel is unstamped. So there is no pattern there, although my Perfect is one of the earliest w/ the 1912 check. Perhaps later reels got the maker's stamp or some other tracking letter.