Winston Leetle Fellers: Exactly what are they?

[jhuskey]

Yeah, ripple on still waters and such. Did you meet Sugaree?

[Cross Creek]

New to me, a most unusual Winston. Whether it could be considered a Leetle Feller is open to question. It’s 7’6” 4wt (no slouch with a 3wt either), but it’s a three piece! Made with two tips, one of which is lost to history. Hopefully Glenn Brackett will rectify that, but I haven’t called him yet, since I just got to cast the rod yesterday. Super Z ferrules—possibly because it was a special order and they didn’t have the correct duronze ferrules in stock? In the last photo, you can see that someone added a name on the flat above the signature. It’s in block lettering with “1988” after the name. Winston records confirm a 1965 build date, though.

[creakycane]

New to me, a most unusual Winston. Whether it could be considered a Leetle Feller is open to question. It’s 7’6” 4wt (no slouch with a 3wt either), but it’s a three piece! Made with two tips, one of which is lost to history. Hopefully Glenn Brackett will rectify that, but I haven’t called him yet, since I just got to cast the rod yesterday. Super Z ferrules—possibly because it was a special order and they didn’t have the correct duronze ferrules in stock? In the last photo, you can see that someone added a name on the flat above the signature. It’s in block lettering with “1988” after the name. Winston records confirm a 1965 build date, though.

Interesting 3pc Winston. Are the females with thread as is customary? Unusual, good luck with it!

[Cross Creek]

No, the females (Super Z with logo) are bare.

[Flyman615]

I'm wondering if both tips were broken and the best way to salvage the rod was to shorten the tip(s) and butt and then make a mid section for it. The Super Z ferrules are curious, especially being un-wrapped. I doubt that either Doug or Glenn would do that, but I could be wrong.

If the rod still has a serial number, Glenn can tell you its original history.

Scott

[Cross Creek]

Company records show it was made just the way it is, only with a second tip that’s now gone. My theory about the ferrules is that Winston likely stocked duronze ferrules they used for catalogued models, but when a non-catalogued three piece version of the 764 was ordered, they resorted to the Super Zs. Apparently it’s not unheard of for Winstons of the San Francisco era to use Super Z ferrules, however uncommon. I’ll be contacting Glenn Brackett soon about making a second tip. If he can shed any more light on the history of this unusual Howells era rod, I’ll be sure to update the thread.

[Grouse]

"Exactly what are they?" Well at least for the six foot version, the answer is pretty sweet.

[Flyman615]

Just a general comment...because "Leetle Fellers" were not marked as such, many continue to try to attribute other light/shorter Winstons as being "Leetle Fellers".

Nice try, but in my view if it's not cataloged (either during the San Francisco or Twin Bridges eras) as originally being sold as a genuine Leetle Feller, then it's NOT one, and shouldn't be represented as such. My two cents...
Scott

[firehole]

I agree with Flyman615 " If it not cataloged as one by San Francisco or Twin Bridges then it's not one. I just noticed a dealer just put a 7 1/2" 3 wt. 2 7/8 oz. on his site as a Leetle Feller. This was never a cataloged Leetle Feller.

Dennis
Click to enlarge

[ibookje]

Now gents let's not be so stiff.
The catalog mentions that other models can be ordered. No doubt some fishermen ordered a rod that fits their fishing better than the ones listed as the standard offerings.
Get in touch with Winston and they can look up if it's a Leetle Feller or a Light Trout.

[creakycane]

Does anyone have earlier scans from 50s or 60s Winston catalogs or Shoplists that discuss all the specific LF models?
I have never seen a list like that. I have long thought that Schwab called the lightest Winstons "Leetle Fellers", but maybe the boundary between the LF's and the trouts was never really rigorously established. Maybe Winston Co just referred casually to all the smaller rods as LF's, and never firmly established the boundary? It depended on who was talking as to whether a particular model is a LF, kind of like us BSing on the board?

[creakycane]

Half of the rods advertised as LF's in recent years are clearly Light Trout's by 1970s catalog definitions.

The rod mentioned above is even lighter than the corresponding 7'6" Leetle Feller, so does that make it a Leetle Feller, or is it a light Trout that is lighter than the Leetle Feller?

Or, does a catalog have to proclaim it a LF for it to be a LF? Maybe. I'd like to know what Winston has recorded that may indicate it is a LF. Maybe they look at the 70s catalog and take a stance, just like we would?

[firehole]

For me the best person to answer questions about LF is Glenn. When I bought my 1980 LF 7' 2 5/8 oz. 4 wt. Glenn clearly identified it from his records as a LF as did the 1980 Winston catalog for LF's.
Dennis

[PT48]

Does Winston still have serial number records for all rods that they made?

[Flyman615]

Yes, and so does Glenn Brackett.

Scott

[Hellmtflies]

Does Winston still have serial number records for all rods that they made?

Yup! As every maker should. IMHO
Mark

[firehole]

Glenn Brackett is the best person to identify a LF taper written for a specific rod.
Dennis

[creakycane]

In early 70s, the catalog lists 6 Leetle Fellers plus custom models



It also lists Light Trouts, including the 5'6" and 6' 4 wts




By 82/83 catalog (likely earlier), Leetle Fellers are only mentioned in the paragraph describing Light Trouts (there are 11 Light Trouts: 6 from the LF list above, the two 4 weights I mention, and a 7'6" 3 wt 4 wt and an 8' 4 wt). It is unclear if these rods from 79 - 83 were marketed only as Light Trouts, and/or are effectively equivalent to Leetle Fellers? I have notes from conversations with Tom Morgan in 1981, and I only recorded reference to Light Trouts. My understanding is the Leetle Fellers were removed from the standard catalog in 1978 and called Light Trout to this date.

As far as Leetle Feller tapers, I have asked, but never received any info on the specific tapers from Winston. For example, is there a 6'6" 4 wt LF taper and a Light Trout taper? Maybe I'll have to channel Mr Schwab to figure that out. I never did ask Glenn that question directly.
I have never got the feeling that Leetle Feller was a term used much at Winston post-Schwab era, except when the Schwab writings started getting attention in SF in the 60s/70s again.

[PT48]

LF's are highly desirable objects and if you are lucky enough to have one of the six delineated models you have clear provenance on your rod. Beyond that, it seems that the waters become a little murky. Recently a 7' 6" three weight was advertised as a LF. Surely some paper work or serial number evidence from Winston would be needed to substantiate the provenance of this rod as a special LF order.

[Hellmtflies]

As the photo above indicates. Mine is a 7' 2&5/8ths rod built for a 4wt. But for me I like mine best with a DT3F. A 4wt. seems to over load the rod a touch. Mine also has a cedar wood sliding band reel seat which was an option.