Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
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Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#121If you look at the fourth picture of Ryan's, I believe you can see the tang under the tip-top wrap of the tip shown on the right in the picture. So, I believe Paul is correct on it being the "barrel tang" type of early Thomas tip top pictured on page 166 of Stewart & Girard's FET book.
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Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#122Thanks, Rupert. I see the tang, but I am referring to the pear-shaped tip top. Other than Orvis, I am not aware of anyone using that style of tip top prior to Perfection's patent in 1915.
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Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#123The book notes that "[a]fter the straight tang-type tip top, a transitional tip was used, consisting of a short-barreled perfection-style tip-top with a tang projection . . . ." p.166 (Underscoring added).
I have a 1917 Special with a barrel tang tip-top that has a round tip-top, a 1918 Special with a barrel tang tip-top that has pear-shaped or perfection style tip-top, and a 1932 with a barrel tang tip-top that has a round tip top. My guess is that, in the silk line era, lots of tip-tops were replaced with whatever was available. But, that's only a guess.
I have a 1917 Special with a barrel tang tip-top that has a round tip-top, a 1918 Special with a barrel tang tip-top that has pear-shaped or perfection style tip-top, and a 1932 with a barrel tang tip-top that has a round tip top. My guess is that, in the silk line era, lots of tip-tops were replaced with whatever was available. But, that's only a guess.
Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#124You may have something there - Given the dark cane and blued hardware, plus the tiptops, perhaps this is a somewhat later rod which missed its number stamping? The 3-7-3 sig wrap is also something rarely seen on those earliest rods.2dabacking wrote:There is something incongruent with the Perfection (or Perfection style) tip tops and the butt cap date.
Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#125Boy... interesting discussion! I was out of the loop when the book was published, so failed to get a copy and need to rely on you fine folks for help. Much appreciated!
Would additional photos be of use? The tip tops have tangs... I was aware of the early type that was essentially a single piece of wire forming the loop and tangs overwrapped with silk, so this was a new type for me.
If the rod was rewrapped it was done awhile ago. Wraps are getting that starved look, and some of the silks are fading. I honestly just assume rods of this vintage have been refinished at some point in their life. This is better than most, I'd say.
Perfection-style stripper seems inconsistent with the age of the components on the rest of the rod. But it's a type found on later Thomases, correct?
The cane really has the look of the ammonia-toned bamboo of another (1947) Browntone that I own. What's the earliest date for Browntones? I haven't ever seen a Mahogany, but the color on this rod seems to be from the cane and not the finish.
Winding check is identical to other Thomases I own or have seen with one exception - there is no knurling on the high ridge running around the center. I agree the ring was likely replaced, but it again looks identical to other Thomases I own or have handled.
Cannot comment on the guides other than they're the English twist type on other Thomases. I haven't handled enough early rods to know if they're too large, but I assume you all are correct.
So... a later Browntone that got an early seat cap during a refinish? Or an early rod that got a perfection-type stripper during a refinish? A Mahogany? I feel like the work may have been done by Thomas considering the Thomas components throughout. This stuff is fun, isn't it?
And because it's such a pretty rod (no matter what we decide its story is...) here's a couple more photos with reels I'm considering.
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R
Would additional photos be of use? The tip tops have tangs... I was aware of the early type that was essentially a single piece of wire forming the loop and tangs overwrapped with silk, so this was a new type for me.
If the rod was rewrapped it was done awhile ago. Wraps are getting that starved look, and some of the silks are fading. I honestly just assume rods of this vintage have been refinished at some point in their life. This is better than most, I'd say.
Perfection-style stripper seems inconsistent with the age of the components on the rest of the rod. But it's a type found on later Thomases, correct?
The cane really has the look of the ammonia-toned bamboo of another (1947) Browntone that I own. What's the earliest date for Browntones? I haven't ever seen a Mahogany, but the color on this rod seems to be from the cane and not the finish.
Winding check is identical to other Thomases I own or have seen with one exception - there is no knurling on the high ridge running around the center. I agree the ring was likely replaced, but it again looks identical to other Thomases I own or have handled.
Cannot comment on the guides other than they're the English twist type on other Thomases. I haven't handled enough early rods to know if they're too large, but I assume you all are correct.
So... a later Browntone that got an early seat cap during a refinish? Or an early rod that got a perfection-type stripper during a refinish? A Mahogany? I feel like the work may have been done by Thomas considering the Thomas components throughout. This stuff is fun, isn't it?
And because it's such a pretty rod (no matter what we decide its story is...) here's a couple more photos with reels I'm considering.
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-----
R
Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#126Hey Ryan, you probably figured out that FETs have many variations, much like Leonards. I think sometimes they just needed to get rods out the door. Are your snake guides bronze? They look silvery/stainless in the photos, maybe they just got hammered by the flash? I'm starting to feel like your rod is a 30's era Browntone which just missed its number stamp.
Mahoganys are actually stained with some sort of iodine-based stuff, it's under the varnish. They look a lot like Browntones with a slightly darker, very even finish.
Here's a Mahogany 8 footer ca. 1918, with an incredibly fine tip and the "short tube" tanged tiptop, which is round. Your rod is definitely newer. (This one had a trip to Steve Blake's spa)
Mahoganys are actually stained with some sort of iodine-based stuff, it's under the varnish. They look a lot like Browntones with a slightly darker, very even finish.
Here's a Mahogany 8 footer ca. 1918, with an incredibly fine tip and the "short tube" tanged tiptop, which is round. Your rod is definitely newer. (This one had a trip to Steve Blake's spa)
Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#127That is an exceptionally beautiful rod. Geez Louise!
This 8'er has guides that aren't as dark as typical Thomas bronze guides, but not as bright as bright or stainless guides. There's a hint of the bronze, or a tarnished stainless. Same gage wire as my other Thomases.
I'm not sure where a number would have been stamped... the 4 rings take up the entire center of the cap.
That tapers I've experienced are wonderful. I'm sure learning about these rods will be a wonderful adventure.
If anyone comes across an early, dark, 8'6" trout rod with intermediates...
R
This 8'er has guides that aren't as dark as typical Thomas bronze guides, but not as bright as bright or stainless guides. There's a hint of the bronze, or a tarnished stainless. Same gage wire as my other Thomases.
I'm not sure where a number would have been stamped... the 4 rings take up the entire center of the cap.
That tapers I've experienced are wonderful. I'm sure learning about these rods will be a wonderful adventure.
If anyone comes across an early, dark, 8'6" trout rod with intermediates...
R
Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#128Ryan, Rupert and Paul thanks for your recent posts. I especially enjoyed the close ups of your FET Ryan. You got me thinking about my 2 FET's. Here are the photos of the tips.
Sorry the photos didn't come out very well.
To Tang or not to Tang that is the question
The shorter Tang on the tip with the brown intermediates actually I think is the newer tip of the 3 tips shown with the brown intermediates. The other 2 show the round tip tops, I am assuming pre-perfection, and they also have much smaller guides than the tip that is tanged. The red wrapped intermediates have long tangs and perfection style tip tops. All the brown intermediate tips come from an 8'6" Special that has no number on the bottom of the butt cap. The red intermediate tips come from a 9' Special that has a 4 in the bulls eye. Just curious when tanging went out of favor, and if other companies besides Thomas used it regularly. It's interesting to me that the earlier tips on the 8'6" Special are not tanged. Thanks fellows. Jed
Sorry the photos didn't come out very well.
To Tang or not to Tang that is the question
The shorter Tang on the tip with the brown intermediates actually I think is the newer tip of the 3 tips shown with the brown intermediates. The other 2 show the round tip tops, I am assuming pre-perfection, and they also have much smaller guides than the tip that is tanged. The red wrapped intermediates have long tangs and perfection style tip tops. All the brown intermediate tips come from an 8'6" Special that has no number on the bottom of the butt cap. The red intermediate tips come from a 9' Special that has a 4 in the bulls eye. Just curious when tanging went out of favor, and if other companies besides Thomas used it regularly. It's interesting to me that the earlier tips on the 8'6" Special are not tanged. Thanks fellows. Jed
Last edited by fefferje on 09/04/17 08:53, edited 1 time in total.
Fefferfly
Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#129Jed, I can't get your pics to load.
Not sure when FET started the tanged tops, they were only on Special grade rods, Dirigos had standard type tops. It's possible that early Specials did also. They ended around the time of Leon's leadership, mid to late 30's. I'm not aware of any other maker using this tiptop style. That's all I got!
PK
Not sure when FET started the tanged tops, they were only on Special grade rods, Dirigos had standard type tops. It's possible that early Specials did also. They ended around the time of Leon's leadership, mid to late 30's. I'm not aware of any other maker using this tiptop style. That's all I got!
PK
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Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#132A truly beautiful old classic, Charlie.
I am Granger green with envy!!
Scott
I am Granger green with envy!!
Scott
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"An undisturbed river is as perfect as we will ever know, every refractive slide of cold water a glimpse of eternity" - Thomas McGuane
Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#133Nice rod Charlie. Your tip tops even have agates. Very pretty and graceful rod, and you say a 3 wt. Unusual for an 8' rod of that period. Thanks for posting. Jed
Fefferfly
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Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#134A beauty, Charlie . . . in an 8' length, AND in amazing condition!
In the book, that style agate tip tops is pictured with a caption that says it is from a Brewer era rod. However, your 1916 marked example suggests those thrifty Mainers used them more than a decade after that.
In the book, that style agate tip tops is pictured with a caption that says it is from a Brewer era rod. However, your 1916 marked example suggests those thrifty Mainers used them more than a decade after that.
Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#135Let's keep the wayback machine turned on. Here's an 8'3" Dirigo, very early rod. Note the long, waisted female ferrules and the rolled and soldered reelseat band. This one has a nice bag just like Charlie's, but I didn't photograph it. No tip bag, it's only a Dirigo! Also note the fineness of the tips. It's a nice medium action rod with tiny snakes.
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Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#136Edit: I stand corrected.oldfishbrain wrote:Quite familiar with tanged FET tiptops. However in the photos you can see the end of the tiptop ferrules. May be whoever did the refinishing left the tangs under the original wraps. A wrapped tanged tiptop should look like this:Short Tip wrote:The tiptops appear to be the standard tanged style which was used up til the late 20's or so - there's a tang or spear under those wraps.
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Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#137No worries, sir, and as you can see by reading this thread, there is so much variation in these rods, it's hard to keep up!
I know you have a few "special" FETs - Would you be kind enough to show them again?
PK
I know you have a few "special" FETs - Would you be kind enough to show them again?
PK
oldfishbrain wrote:Edit: I stand corrected.oldfishbrain wrote:Quite familiar with tanged FET tiptops. However in the photos you can see the end of the tiptop ferrules. May be whoever did the refinishing left the tangs under the original wraps. A wrapped tanged tiptop should look like this:Short Tip wrote:The tiptops appear to be the standard tanged style which was used up til the late 20's or so - there's a tang or spear under those wraps.
Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#138Paul, thanks for posting the photo of the Dirigo. Elegant reel seat and ferrules, and an understated elegance overall. Really nice. Did you mention what year it was??? Thanks again. Jed
Fefferfly
Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#139Paul, also, the winding check on that Dirigo looks different. Even the coloration of the cane looks a bit mellower. Thanks again. Jed
Fefferfly
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Re: Show Your FE Thomas Fly Rods
#140Nice grouping of Thomas rods! Charlie, those tip bags are extremely hard to find. Very nice!
Here is one with a fairly good resemblance to Ryan's rod. It has the same Perfection (or Perfection style) tip tops and same signature wraps. It is a Special with a Hardy-style reel seat, which was available as an option in the 1935 catalog. The butt cap is stamped "36" (for 1936), and it was purchased new from A&F in the last half of the 1930s. (Rupert, this is the rod I mentioned in our email exchanges. I finally got around to taking a photo. Also, I never did find another tip tube with a number stamped on the inside of the brass cap.)
This rod is a gem, and I just grin whenever I see it. I took this rod on its first journey in July 2013. She was one of a handful of Thomas rods to make the trip to Tim Pond, at the generous invitation of Jeff Knapp, but this was the rod I wanted to fish the most while there. To me, it felt like the perfect length and action for throwing big flies to small, but voracious brook trout. She definitely rose to the challenge, and we landed some beautiful trout.
Here is one with a fairly good resemblance to Ryan's rod. It has the same Perfection (or Perfection style) tip tops and same signature wraps. It is a Special with a Hardy-style reel seat, which was available as an option in the 1935 catalog. The butt cap is stamped "36" (for 1936), and it was purchased new from A&F in the last half of the 1930s. (Rupert, this is the rod I mentioned in our email exchanges. I finally got around to taking a photo. Also, I never did find another tip tube with a number stamped on the inside of the brass cap.)
This rod is a gem, and I just grin whenever I see it. I took this rod on its first journey in July 2013. She was one of a handful of Thomas rods to make the trip to Tim Pond, at the generous invitation of Jeff Knapp, but this was the rod I wanted to fish the most while there. To me, it felt like the perfect length and action for throwing big flies to small, but voracious brook trout. She definitely rose to the challenge, and we landed some beautiful trout.