Montague made orvis rod questions

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Fryeguy
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Montague made orvis rod questions

#1

Post by Fryeguy »

I have searched thru this forum looking for as much info as I can on these rods. I found a post where greg reynolds had a catalog page from orvis, and it appears that the montague made rods were all 3-piece rods, and it also appears they came with 2-tips. Is this accurate for all of the montague made orvis rods? did they ever make a 2-piece orvis/montague rod? what other signs do I need to look for to make sure they are actual orvis made rods, and not montague? any help would be greatly appreciated!! pics would be even better!!!!!!!!! thanks in advance

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BruceHandley
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#2

Post by BruceHandley »

I have a Montague/ Orvis, 8',3/2 which I fish with a 5wt. My rod has no ser. number and I don't think it ever did.
In casting this rod I think its a Montague taper, and a nice one at that. My rod came in a "redwing type" tube and green bag, the label on the tube however isn't a match to the normal Orvis or Montague. The label however is signed as an Orvis, as is the butt cap.
The butt section is also marked as "pat. pending"
I also think that my rod was guided and wrapped by Montague.
Bruce

hopkintoncane
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#3

Post by hopkintoncane »

The details are pretty fuzzy, but the story I heard was that Montague made the blanks, they were picked up at the Massachusetts factory by an Orvis employee, brought back to Manchester in barrels in the back of a pickup truck to be impregnated by the "secret process", and then returned to Montague for assembly, including trimming the blanks to length, mounting ferrules, grip, and realseat (all Montague hardware shared at the time with the Redwing grade), wrapped in the specified red and black, and put up in a Redwing grade tube and sock. According to a very well known maker who is still active here in Massachusetts and is familiar with Montague manufacturing details, Redwing, Trail, Manitou, and double-built rods were made in a designated part of the factory, completely separate from the rest of the rodmaking and other operations. The 3 rods I have all have remnants of a paper label on the tube, Todd

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jhcoffeebum
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#4

Post by jhcoffeebum »

This is interesting! I knew Orvis had some rods built in England or Scotland in the early 60's, I think. But this is the first I've read about Montague. I've owned a few Montagues that were very nice rods, so it doesn't surprise me that Orvis would entrust their name to Montague.
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shoaliedude
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#5

Post by shoaliedude »

I have come into possession of the rod shown above by EWP313.

I believe it was a Monty/Orvis at one time - but am not certain. If so, it has undergone a pretty extreme "renovation." It has a larger guide in tip position 2 than the guides at 1 and 3. The other tip and the mid each have at least one stainless steel guide rather than all chromium. The spiral wraps under the guide do not seem original when compared to photos of other examples. The hook keeper is not the ring & keeper I expected to see. Then, there is that rubber winding check! Plus, I did not expect the rod to be varnished. I have seen people write that they used Red Wing type ferrules. The heavy rolled ferules on this rod do not look like the ferrules on my Red Wings or other top end Montys.

So, I'm probably going to fish it this year and restore next winter - if it's worth it. If it's not a real Monty/Orvis though, I won't bother with restoration.

1. Can somebody post a photo of the proper winding check & hook keeper?

2. Is this rod supposed to be varnished?

3. Are the ferrules correct for a Monty/Orvis?

I will pm the taper to anyone who cares enough to compare to their 8-6 Orvis/Monty.

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BruceHandley
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#6

Post by BruceHandley »

I still have my Orvis/Monty rod, give me a bit and I'll get back to you with pictures. I'll also field your questions at that time.
As I said ages ago in a post, this rod is a great casting rod. Although I don't think its an Orvis taper.
Bruce

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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#7

Post by jvh »

Here are some photos of mine. It's 9' 3/2. Hope these help.


ImageImageImageImageImageImage

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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#8

Post by RonT1 »

My 9' is a twin to that, same stamp on buttcap but without the scrip. How far above and on which flat is the scrip on yours? Mine doesn't appear to be refinished.
Cheers,
R

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BruceHandley
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#9

Post by BruceHandley »

Mark,
Here are the pictures that you asked for. If I've missed something, get back to me. I'll tell you what I see as landmarks that might be of use to you if you decide to restore the rod.

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Because the stamping is so light, what it says is Orvis Impregnated and the line under that says Patent Pending.

Image

Image
You'll note in the picture of the reel pocket that it is soldered.

Image
Note the knurling on the sliding band, which I think is distinctive, and also the small section of wood on the reel seat.

Image
In this picture note the grip check, which as I recall is quite a bit different from what you have. I make no promises but I have 40-50 scrap grip checks and I'll look to see if I have one like is on this rod. Note that the hook keeper has an open wrap and it is on the #6 flap.

Image
The female ferrules are hand welded; they also have a witness mark and they're wrapped up over. The ferrules are serrated.

Image
We've added a close-up of the female ferrules. The picture is not the best but it shows what you need. If not clear enough we can send another picture.

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I think you're able to see what you need on the male ferrules. At this point I should add that I'm not sure what material these ferrules are made of. I don't think they're nickel silver; they have a dull finish that almost makes them look like aluminum, which they aren't.

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This is the rod tube. You'll note that the label is of paper and you can't read much of it, but what you need to know about this tube is that it is a standard Montague-type tube as you would find with a Montague Redwing. The original bag is also the green cloth bag you would expect to get with a Redwing. Note the knurling on the tube cap, also distinctive to the Redwing tube.

Image
This rod does not carry a serial number and the only marking on the butt section, in black ink, is as you see it: Impregnated Special.

And that's it for the pictures. Now for some general comments. As you can see, all the wraps are red with black tipping. There is one stripper on the butt section, there are 4 guides on the mid section and 4 guides on the tip section. The guides all look to be nickel silver, as is the stripper.

Any questions, get back to me.
Bruce
Last edited by BruceHandley on 03/12/15 16:56, edited 1 time in total.

jvh
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#10

Post by jvh »

RonT1 wrote:My 9' is a twin to that, same stamp on buttcap but without the scrip. How far above and on which flat is the scrip on yours? Mine doesn't appear to be refinished.
Cheers,
R
On mine the script is on the bottom flat. Same side as the reel would be on.

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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#11

Post by RonT1 »

Thank you. Also, mine doesn't have a hook keeper, but does have the NS winding check. Same Black tube as shown above.
Cheers,
R

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BruceHandley
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#12

Post by BruceHandley »

Mark,
As to your question about varnish, no the rod shouldn't be varnished, other than the wraps and writing.
Bruce

shoaliedude
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#13

Post by shoaliedude »

Jvh, Ron and Bruce:

Thank you all VERY much. I believe mine is real based on the butt cap, ferrules and reel seat. Looks like I have next Winter's project picked out.

Mark

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BruceHandley
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#14

Post by BruceHandley »

Mark,
I misspoke, the ferrules aren't serrated but are tapered to cane. If you go back to the picture of the male ferrules you can see a ferrule without wraps. Sorry about that, my bad.
Bruce

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TheMontyMan
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#15

Post by TheMontyMan »

I have two 8'6" rods that are "The Montague Rod, Orvis Impregnated" models. I fished one of them fairly often last season, and it was a nice, fast action 4/5 weight that could throw a big bug as well as a dry fly with plenty of control and grace.

Both of mine are nearly identical to what Bruce shared in his photos, with a few exceptions. Mine were both marked with, "Montague Impregnated" scripted on shaft, in black, using Montague's typical style font. Someone attempted to scratch off the word "Montague" on one of them. I don't blame them, they are probably much more valuable as an Orvis rod than a Montague rod. I have seen a handful of these, but have not seen any with the "Impregnated Special" scripting on the shaft before now. This scripting is not in Montague's typical font/style. It may have been added by Orvis to reduce the stigma of the Montague name being on them, or it could have been added by by one of the rod's owners. It would be interesting to see a few more of them. I have seen a couple of these with the scripting removed altogether.

Another difference is that one of my tube labels says, "Light Trout Fly - IMPREGNATED - 8 1/2 Ft.". That leads me to believe they may have built the 8'6" rods in 2 different tapers, Montague's typical Medium Trout taper, and a Light Trout taper, but I don't know this for sure.

From what I can tell, the ferrules are a slightly modified Landman style ferrule, usually found only on Montague's Manitou model rods. They are most likely nickel silver. The reel seat is probably aluminum, and is Montague's typical Scrulock style found on Manitous and Red Wings of that time frame.

. . . Rex
The Monty Man

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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#16

Post by Flytackle »

I picked up one of the 8.5' 3/2 Orvis/Montys this winter and am really pleased with how well it casts a 6 weight triangle taper. This is really a delightful taper.
Image

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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#17

Post by Adamsdry »

Those down-locking reel seats are a thing of beauty.
Thank y'all for posting pictures.

D
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TXTrout
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#18

Post by TXTrout »

I know this is an older thread, but have a question. Do these rods have a 3x3 or a random node pattern?

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BruceHandley
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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#19

Post by BruceHandley »

TXTrout,
I can't speak for others, but my rod has a random node pattern.
Something I should have added back in the orig. posts on the Monty Orvis rod was that it wasn't cheap. somewhere I have a copy of the ad on this rod and I think it listed at $50. Back in the 40's that was a good bit of change
Bruce

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Re: Montague made orvis rod questions

#20

Post by eastprong »

hopkintoncane has the same information I have which I think came from the Spurr book but I lost my copy so I can't confirm. These rods do not have serial numbers.

My big question is what taper do they follow? I once owned the 8'6" rod and it looked like a mid-grade Montague taper but I never measured it. Has anyone taken the taper on any of the 3 models?

--Rich

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