Spar Varnish or Shellac on feathers?

[Mark Huff]

'Afternoon fellow tyers...

Has anyone used Spar Varnish or Shellac on feathers instead of Dave's Flexament? I have large cans of each of the former, and realized that one or both might work instead of buying another thing, namely the Dave's. Application is making upland feather down wings on the backs of hoppers more durable (AK's Hopper).

As head cement, Shellac penetrates well, and dries pretty fast. Spar Varnish in my tying takes a few days to dry, but I predict would be more durable than shellac. Plan would be to prepare hopper wings for a few dozen flies, varnish them, let them dry two or three days, then tie the flies.

Thoughts? Might the light spar varnish smell be off-putting to the fish? I would just tie one and experiment but in January I'm tying a whole season's batch of hoppers.

All Good Things..................Mark

[dder]

Mark, while not as good of a tyier as most on here what I have found works pretty good is to use clear nail polish. I think it is just lacquer ,drys fast and is cheap in the dollar stores. Seems to work pretty good on feathers ,fixing splits in jungle cock nails etc. I have used it for doing feather inlays on rod butts as well and seems to not discolor under flexcoat lite wrap epoxy,not in 6-7 years anyway. Smell doesn,t seem to last long enough to put off trout in my experience either. Daryl

[gt05254]

I use Cellire Varnish to repair split jungle cock nails, and have used it on feathers for the backs of hoppers as well. (It is also the only head cement I use). Fish - well, atlantic salmon anyway - do not seem to be adverse to its use in the slightest.
Gary

[Mark Huff]

Gary, is Cellire Varnish a type of spar varnish?

[gt05254]

Mark, I can't answer that. Don't know. I do know that it is a very clear varnish, so labeled by Veniard's. It's "clearness" is what endears it to me, both for feather repair and head coatings. Dries pretty quickly, which is a plus as well. I have been using it for some years, and have never had a head turn "milky" as they do with some other head coatings.

Gary

[Mark Huff]

Thanks, Gary--Cellire's drying quickly, and clarity, sound quite different than good old Spar which is amber and slow drying. But regardless it sounds like spar will work for the feather wings on this season's hoppers. thanks.

[bluesjay]

Hi Guys, I use spay on lacquer on some larger feathers like turkey and goose. Jay Edwards

[Ben Kann]

If memory serves (a thing I no longer take for granted), Cellire is a cellulose based "lacquer".
BTW, there is at least one school of thought that believes that trout, like salmon, can taste stuff in ppm (or even ppbillion) and so use nothing but natural materials on the hook--although, for some reason believe that it's more true of subsurface flies than floaters. Go figure.

[pittendrigh]

Al Troth drove from Dillons MT to Bozeman ' s Paint Pot once each year to buy Man ' O War Marine Spar Varnish, which he used for head cement...

[Norm Frechette]

light coat of uv resin might last a bit longer than fixative spray, head cement, flexament etc

[JohnDe]

Jack Gartside used spar varnish (natural or polyurethane) on the pheasant back feathers he used in his hopper pattern. On his web site he advises to prepare at least a dozen at a time and draw the feather through thumb and finger to get the desired shape. He also suggests to let the feather dry for 24 hours.

[Mark Huff]

JohnDe, you hit the nail on the head. And thanks for bringing Jack Gartside to mind!

Agreed Norm, spar will be durable, and the part of this hopper that goes first is the feather wing splintering into individual fibres.

Sandy, aren't you in the Bahamas?, dang, go wet a line, sir!

Ben, I'll try the shellac, too, which is a lacquer and might be what Cellire is.

Best.......Mark

[aged_sage]

For feathers such as duck quills and turkey tails, or any feather from which slips will be cut, I have used "Krylon Clear Fixative" for decades. It dries almost instantly, is flexible, and extremely durable. I spray coat both surfaces prior to their use, and typically do several at a time. This way, I always have some on hand 'ready to go'.

For body feathers to be used as grasshopper backs, etc., I stretch a piece of panty hose across an embroidery hoop, prepare the feathers by stripping all the fluff off the stem, and putting a small 'dab' of PVC cement onto the panty hose in a small area (it is amazing how fast this stuff dries). The feather is pressed down into the cement, and left to dry. Once the all of the surface area of the stretched panty hose has been covered with feathers, the panty hose is removed from the hoop, and each feather is cut free by cutting as close to the feather as possible without actually cutting it. Such treated feathers are almost indestructible; yet remain flexible! I tallied 32 large green sunfish one afternoon on one, and it was none the worse for the wear!

[Mark Huff]

thanks, Aged Sage!

[mnflyfshr]

I was a bit surprised to learn that people used spar varnish in fly tying given that spar takes so long to dry. I have never heard of anyone using shellac. It has poor moisture resistance. I think that Cellire is lacquer (even though it is called varnish on the bottle). Alot of fly tying head cements sold today are lacquer and people have good results with using nail polish which is generally some form of lacquer. Until recently, I used Dave's fleximent to treat feathers for wings and wing cases. It is a bit messy and the thinner is a nasty volatile organic. Recently I have been using a new product from cascade crest called feather tuff for treating feathers and I am very happy with it. One bottle is enough to treat 10-12 turkey quills.
https://www.feather-craft.com/wecs.php? ... rget=TZ031
For a non-glossy tying cement, I have gone to using CA (cyanoacrylate) glue. Loctite made a package a few years ago that had a nice little applicator brush and was spill resistant. It was better than the packaging for any fly tying product I had ever seen so of course Loctite discontinued it. WAPSI has a new head cement that is CA with a built in applicator brush and I have been using that lately. Be careful if you use CA just to use the tiniest amount. It is possible to glue your fly to your vise, your fingers to the fly or your head and even to glue your eyelid shut if you happen to rub your eye. If you like lacquer for tying, you can get a quart of brushing lacquer and some lacquer thinner from the local home store. That will last you until it stops drying hard (which takes a few years). I am kind of a fly tying glue and goops junky.

[mvbrooks]

I use spar varnish on the bodies of my Greenwell Glory's. Cobblers wax is quicker, to get that olive color, but a good dark colored spar, looks the same and adds an ethereal translucency that is devastating beautiful. Also, for Woodduck wings, an old trick is to add the slightest dab of spar to the base of the "bunch" tied for dry fly wings. It aids in keeping them together and makes collecting them into two groups, for the separate wings, a snap. Glue the head with another dab of varnish and set everything aside to dry over night. Comb the wings out the next day with a dubbing needle. They'll stay grouped and last a lot longer than plain tied on wings.

As for fixing JC splits, spar, a small dab on your thumb and index finger, and pulling the feather between them until the split disappears, is how old times do it. Spar remains flexible and brightens the colors on the feathers. I use it on Blue Chatterers feathers, too, which I add as cheeks to some of my Spey flies.

[DrLogik]

I use Shoe Goo thinned with Toluene to make it the consistency of syrup. Works really well and is basically home-made Flexament.

Tear Mender is a really flexible coating sold in hardware stores and craft stores. I've used it to. Good stuff.

If you use spar or shellac go easy as too much can make the wings hard as wood, which is not a good thing.