Anyone out there have any verifiable information about Sharkskin lines and wear on guides?
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Kai |
Any Actual Information on Sharkskin Lines and Guide Wear? |
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I've occasionally heard rumors about the new Sharkskin lines increasing wear on guides. It's never been first hand information, however. It's
"I heard from a friend, that his friend had his guides wear out because he used a Sharkskin line on his rod."
Anyone out there have any verifiable information about Sharkskin lines and wear on guides? |
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Trout120 |
#1 | |||
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For a hundred $'s a pop, you know the manufacturer tested these lines way beyond the call of duty.
These lines have been around for a very long time but most folks don't realize that. Lines made by Berkley back in the 70's had a "pebbley" finish in order to have less surface contact with the guides. The Sharkskin is of the same idea, with areas of pebbley and smooth spots along the entire line. They're no harder on the guides than a modern takeoff of a silk line, but also offers greater shooting characteristics. T120 |
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flyty |
#2 | |||
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How would a line that caused enough friction to wear out the guides be a better casting line than one that didn't wear out the guides? It seems to me that
if the line wore out the guides, then it wouldn't cast very well because there would be too much friction.
Last Edited By: flyty 08/09/2008 00:48.
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creakycane |
#3 | |||
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The theory is the decreased interaction of surface area yields a better shooting line. Better than a clean slick 444 peach? No. Better than a dirty dried up
444 peach? perhaps. These lines have indeed been around for at least 25 years (I have had one on a Featherweight since the early 80's).
If synthetic lines could be make the same density and thus taper profile as real silk, that could be floated well, with a slick coating, that would be the best line of all. I don't think the ridges on silk add a thing -- and on quiet days, and particularly some rods, I find that swish of silk annoying - like a little hacksaw on the quides. But, alas, I don't think we have a better substitute that is that small diameter for a given line size that still will float well and is slick. Someday. Please let me know if these is something on the market..... |
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BigTJ |
#4 | |||
How would a line that caused enough friction to wear out the guides be a better casting line than one that didn't wear out the guides? It seems to me that if the line wore out the guides, then it wouldn't cast very well because there would be too much friction.Braided nylon shooting lines were all the rage in the late 80's and early 90's, and shot like heck, but were well known to wear out guides. I have seen them wear out guides. Part of the equation depends on how fast the line is going in and out of the guides. Double-haul casting for saltwater and large freshwater gamefish is a whole different ballgame than short-line casting for trout. A good friend of mine who has been using a Sharkskin line for 6 mos has seen absolutely no wear. And it is true that SA does test their lines, but probably not long enough to tell for sure if there will be wear. If there is wear I think it would be with the bigger line sizes and folks fishing for stripers, bonefish, salmon, etc. They're great lines for sure and cast really well but I can't see spending that kind of money when I can get a peach 444 for about $50. |
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bow river |
#5 | |||
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i can see the line wearing the guides , i had a chance to try the line last week for a hour as a customer i was guiding on the bow was nice enough to let me
check it out to see what i thought ,
my 2 cents is , it throws so nice and far , it cast and shoots a country mile , i didn't like how it felt in the hands '' rough'' , i hooked into a good fish and as the line was running hard through my fingers it was like a burn , way worse then any line i ever used , ''not for me'' it really left burn marks if the line could burn my fingers on only one fish then to me yes it would wear the guides on your rod in time i think it's just way to much money also for a plastic line
Richard
Check out my site for vintage reels & rods , guided float trips on canada's # 1 best trout river http://bowriveradventures.googlepages.com/home |
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Trout120 |
#6 | |||
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I'd love to have burn marks from a fish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
T120 |
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bswild |
Sharkskin | #7 | ||
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S.A. make fine products. But here is yet again another fly line that will "revolutionize" trout fishing. Next year, S.A. will produce another new
flyline that will help us to achieve Nirvana--as were the Ultras, Ultra IIs, GPX, Trout Tapers...yada, yada. I'm sure the Sharkskin is a real performer,
though I don't like the idea of "burns" on my fingers (one catalogue recommends a glove they sell to go with it!). But $100.00 bucks for a
flyline is over-the-top. Further, I really don't need a high performance line, as I just fish for trout the smaller spring creeks in my region. For me, the
Peach 444 remains at the top.
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bobbeegee |
#8 | |||
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bswild makes a good point. Do you really need the latest and greatest (this year only) synthetic fly line?
$100.00! yikes! If SA can assure me I will double my hook-ups using this line, with a money back guarantee........maybe I will fork over the dough. Not beleaguring SA. Their 444 and Ultra lines are really fine with bamboo rods. Gotta sell, sell, sell. A line is a line. Some are better than others. Are they $50.00 better? Are you going to catch more fish with a more expensive, supposed state of the art line? How much difference is a line going to make in landing fish? I think experience on stream, and an overall fishing acumen leads to fishing success. The line is only one of many components to be considered. And that consideration should naturally only be a part of your overall comfortable rig. This is just my opinion, and if you just have to have this line, and it somehow increases your confidence, then good luck and tight Sharkskin lines! Bob p.s. Kai.........I apologize for going off on a tangent and not addressing your original post. Moderators, please delete if inappropriate.
Last Edited By: bobbeegee 08/13/2008 19:14.
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wb4tjh |
#9 | |||
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I tried a 5 weight Sharkskin last spring, and while it did shoot well, I just can't see that it's worth a hundred bucks. For that much, I can buy THREE
Hook and Hackle lines that are as good as anything I have used over the years.
Fine flyrods can be made from different materials, but bamboo is the Benchmark against which all the rest are compared......
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flyflingerandy1 |
#10 | |||
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I agree about the H&H lines. They are superior to most other lines I have used on slower rods. I like the taper, and the feel. However, I cannot get past
the idea that designing a new fly line is all about distance. What about control or accuracy? The tag line with Sharkskin is adds 15-20 feet to your cast. If
you fish a river no more than 10 yards wide, what the hell is the extra 15-20 feet gonna get you? I will keep buying H&H.
One other sad note, traditionally a fly line is 10% the cost of a new top end rod. Well, do the math, $100 is 10% of what? New plastic rods are gonna be a grand soon, and Rio will be bringing out a line to compete with SS. Andy |
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wb4tjh |
#11 | |||
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The lower parts of the earth will freeze over before I buy a plastic rod that costs a grand....you can buy really good bamboo for that much money...two if you
look hard. I have paid $50 or $60 for a specialized saltwater line, but I have yet to see anything other than real silk that to me can command a price over
that. Saltwater is the only place I fish where distance casting really comes into play. I like intermediate lines for that. Being thinner, they shoot well and
cut the wind like a knife. Back in June, I spent a day fishing dries for trout in SE Oklahoma with my Bob Lancaster Big Horn rod, and a Hook and Hackle 5DT
handled it all with finesse.
Fine flyrods can be made from different materials, but bamboo is the Benchmark against which all the rest are compared......
Last Edited By: wb4tjh 10/08/2008 09:25.
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clarkman23 |
#12 | |||
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Well, I did a search on Sharkskin line and came up with this. I just thought I'd resurrect it since last week I had the pleasure of casting a rod
(plastic) with Sharkskin. I liked the way the line felt and cast, but the noise...I was curious if anyone does use this line with their bamboo rods?
Personally, I really like the H&H lines. They have done really well for me for the last couple of years. Randy |
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Kai |
#13 | |||
clarkman23 wrote: I've been using it on my six-weight bamboo rods, which I tend to bring out when I can forsee the need for some distance casting. I've been checking them for undue guide wear, and so far I haven't seen anything suspicious. I've become used to the noise, and I do like the way the line casts and the way it floats. |
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Arctic Grayling.fiberglassflyro... |
#14 | |||
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I have an eight weight Sharkskin on a Young Beaudex that I fish on my long, heavy Grangers. I have been fishing this combination on lakes from a pontoon boat
this summer. I've used it on several Grangers so no one rod has had enough Sharkskin use to cause any guide wear. The line casts great on the Grangers, but
what I like best about the line is how easy it is to pick up off the water. Even after a long cast I can pick up and cast to rising fish elsewhere on the lake.
I got the line on sale for 30% off so it was worth the cost to me.
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wb4tjh |
#15 | |||
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Got it on sale!...well that's a start. When they get more realistically priced in the $50 to $65 range, I might reconsider one. I just think a hundred
bucks for a machine made, synthetic flyline is absurd.
Fine flyrods can be made from different materials, but bamboo is the Benchmark against which all the rest are compared......
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ArcticCane |
#16 | |||
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I have been using Sharkskin lines for most of the year on my 6-8wt bamboo rods and I really like them.
It was really quite surprising the first time I used one. I had fished for most of the day with a 7wt with a RIO Selective Trout, which is a great fly line, and, knowing I had the SS line on a 6wt, figured I had better give it a try. I strung it up and was shocked at how much more easily it moves through the guides. The RIO felt outright sticky in comparison. I have found the slickness to be an advantage in shooting line of course, but much more importantly in situations where you need to mend line and toss out a little extra slack, getting line out quickly with much fewer false casts, and even when stripping in line when trying to catch up with a fish that is running towards me. The line does pick up off the water easier as it floats higher on the surface and therefore mends easier and cleaner. It has a slightly thinner diameter than other synthetic lines of an equivalent weight, which is nice in windy conditions and when nymphing, much like natural silk. I have found it feels more supple than most other lines. In some cases it actually feels too supple and I've wanted a little bit stiffer line. I have pretty much gotten used to it now though. It is also plenty abrasive on your hands. If you have your finger tightly holding the line and you get a big fish running, expect some raw skin at the least. Very much like fishing in the salt. The Trout taper is just a tad front heavy with a longer back taper. I'm hoping they come out with something more along the lines of a Wulff Triangle Taper. I have seen a few new tapers (magnum, steelhead) but they all seem geared towards distance casting, which I suppose isn't surprising given the direction they are going with the marketing. I am very much looking forward to seeing how it does in the extreme cold and in conditions where ice easily forms. I've heard reports, both good and bad, and really want to see what the deal is. Yes, it does make a zipping noise when moving through the guides. It is a little louder than natural silk, but having used natural silk for quite a while, the sound doesn't bother me at all. In fact, it is the closest in fishing characteristics to a natural silk line in a synthetic that I've ever used. In most cases where I would normally fish my 6, 7, & 8wt Phoenix lines, I find myself using the SS more often than not. I don't have any smaller sized SS lines than a 6wt so I can't comment on those. I don't want to sound like I am pushing this line. I have no financial interest in SA of course and I'm the last person to say 'this is the end-all-be-all of fly lines' or 'you'd be stupid to try anything else'. However, I do very much like the line and now that I have used it I will say that though I agree $100 is absurd for a synthetic line, I do like it enough to now cough up the full $100 for one if I had to (even though I didn't which made experimenting much easier on the bank account Here is some information from SA in regards to some specific aspects of the line. The Chain Effect: Wear on Guides? Fly Line Stretch: Flotation: http://www.joncovich.com/Newsletters/volume_2.htm http://www.midcurrent.com...hing-retailer-show-2.html
Chris
Last Edited By: ArcticCane 10/11/2008 18:24.
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Kai |
#17 | |||
ArcticCane wrote:I have fished the sharkskin in cold temperatures last winter, and found that it ices up very quickly, accumulates more ice, and retains the ice more than a smooth line. Often, on a smooth line, some vigorous false casting can break/shake the ice off the line. The ice tends to grip very tenaciously to the sharkskin, and it's very hard to de-ice it once it ices up. After two times with the sharkskin in cold weather, I went back to fishing smooth lines in the cold, with much better results. |
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ibookje |
#18 | |||
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Excellent arguments Chris / ArcticCane!
>It has a slightly thinner diameter than other synthetic lines of an equivalent weight, which is nice in windy conditions and when nymphing, much like natural silk. I found out that given a line weight SA lines are the thinnest in diameter, Rio being a bit thicker and Cortland the thickest. This can be measured with micrometers. We are not talking about the weight range here because that's a different subject. This means that the SA lines have the least wind resistance when casting and thus Cortland the most. Who cares? Well, if one is a good/excellent caster (you be the judge) you know EXACTLY how your rod behaves with a certain line & brand (= your preference). If you cast the rod with a different brand and similar tapering then you will feel that the rod feels differently. In my case I don't like Cortland line because it makes my rod feel slightly 'sluggish' and I need to add additional line speed (= double haul and change of timing) to get the rod do the things I want. This diameter difference issue I've started in many forums (incl. Fly Fisherman) but I've never read a response that supports my argument. Only with excellent casters (FFF Masters) did I get similar responses. >It is also plenty abrasive on your hands. If you have your finger tightly holding the line and you get a big fish running, expect some raw skin at the least. Very much like fishing in the salt. SA says their Sharkskin line is amongst the LEAST abrasive line after test with line<>guide contact. So this should mean that skin contact with the line is a different kind of contact than line with metal (= guide). And YES, your skin will smoke with a Sharkskin line but is it because the tiny droplets of water between the 'Shark holes' of the line softens the skin and thus makes the skin weaker and more open for damages? I've only cast a few SS lines and I think they are the smoothest casting lines I've ever cast. The price is just ridiculous.... Jay |
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