How many thousanths to make a significant difference?

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Stephen Veefkind	How many thousanths to make a significant difference?		Lead	[-]
Posts: 64 08/12/2009 19:08	Tags : None Hi guys, I built a Garrison 209E nodeless not long ago. While fishing the other day with a reletively heavy streamer, I put a crack in the butt section of the rod. What I'm looking for is a rod that can throw streamers and nymphs, but also give a delicate presentation with dries. How many thousanths in the butt section would it take to make a significant difference in strength? My grip ends 10 1/2 inches up from the butt, so I'm looking to strengthen another 6 inches or so up from there. As I said, the rod is nodeless. I used Titebond III on this rod for scarfs and strips. I will be changing over to Urac 185 for the next rod. Don't know if that will make a difference or not. Any suggestions? thanks to all...
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canerodscom		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2238 08/12/2009 19:19 Bamboo preacher	The Urac will make a tremendous difference over Titebond, especially in a nodeless rod. I've never built nodeless, but have heard of many nodeless splices failing with Titebond. Harry Harry Boyd maker@canerods.com My website -- canerods.com My blog -- canerods.blogspot.com Ozark Rod Makers School
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oneculm		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 609 08/12/2009 19:25	I would guess the crack had nothing to do with casting streamers.
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thousandstar		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 204 08/12/2009 19:26	Was the failure at a glue joint or in the bamboo itself?
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lazylightningny		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 08/12/2009 20:35	thousandstar wrote: Was the failure at a glue joint or in the bamboo itself? In the glue joint, in a few places.
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AJ Bamboo		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 839 08/13/2009 04:56	use URAC and the same dimensions and you will be OK. it won't delam unless you ascribe to the dopey logic of keeping the strips in a 'dry chamber'( a reasonable moisture content is hoe the glue penetrates the cane) and it will be significantly stiffer than a rod glued using TB3
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wctc1		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 314 08/13/2009 09:14	Refresh long in the words of the Master. He rarely speaks.
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bbamboo		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 201 08/13/2009 09:33	Stephen I am with others I would not use titebond for a spliced rod. its great glue but not for a spliced section. I would use epoxy every time Gary www.nichobamboorods.com
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oldfishbrain		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1375 08/13/2009 10:24	I'll add my voice to the advice of not using titebond for the splicing. After my friend and fellow fisher and rodmaker had some problems with titebond II splices poping, I switched to using Epon both for splicing and gluing the strips. The rods I made with titebond II for splicing and Epon for gluing are still OK (that's only 3 rods), but I feel a lot more secure with the new method (12 rods). Maker of light line nodeless bamboo fly rods avardanis@sympatico.ca
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Stephen Veefkind		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 65 08/13/2009 10:24	Thanks to you all for your wisdom in all matters cane. It is much appreciated. Steve
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crcaddis		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 335 08/13/2009 10:30	Dont use gorilla glue either....did a nodeless rod with that stuff a couple years ago, and its delamed twice...Cheers.
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Stephen Veefkind		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 66 08/13/2009 10:37	Never been a fan of Gorilla glue. Tried it a few times and I hate the foamy expansion.
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Think Bamboo		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 25 08/13/2009 11:14	Hi Stephen, To take you literally by your definition of "crack" in the butt section, I assume that you mean that the cane split following the grain of the fibers. If that is the case, it's an indication that the cane you used was too dry, which will cause the problem that occured. This can easily happen if you heat treat the cane at too high a tempaature or left in the oven for an abnormal amount of time. Likewise, improper brown toning procedures will produce similar results. On the other hand, signs of a glue failure is a clear separation of the sections at the glue seams. It is imperative that a certain amount of moisture must remain in the cane in order to eliminate any of the above two incidents. Gus. Last Edited By: Think Bamboo 08/13/2009 11:33. Edited 2 times.
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Stephen Veefkind		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 67 08/13/2009 18:30	Think Bamboo wrote: Hi Stephen, To take you literally by your definition of "crack" in the butt section, I assume that you mean that the cane split following the grain of the fibers. If that is the case, it's an indication that the cane you used was too dry, which will cause the problem that occured. This can easily happen if you heat treat the cane at too high a tempaature or left in the oven for an abnormal amount of time. Likewise, improper brown toning procedures will produce similar results. On the other hand, signs of a glue failure is a clear separation of the sections at the glue seams. It is imperative that a certain amount of moisture must remain in the cane in order to eliminate any of the above two incidents. Gus. Hi Gus. It was a failure at the glue lines. My fault for not speaking clearly. Thanks for your input.
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john channer		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 806 08/14/2009 10:41	I'm a full time carpenter and have been for over 25 years and have used gallons upon gallons of titebond for cabinets and interior work, but would not even consider it for fly rods. The kind of applications it was designed for are static, it's not meant for structural use or where the joints flex repeatedly. Urac, Resorcinol and the various epoxies are much better glues for making fly rods. john
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WhoBeBoo.thebamboorodroom	using Epon on scarfs...how do you do it?	#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 36 08/14/2009 20:33	Oldfishbrain...I see you are using Epon on your scarfs. I've built three rods now....nodeless using TitebondII on the scarfs and Epon on the strips. I've stressed rod number 3 quite a lot and so far no problems. Here's my question. When I glue up scarfs it's usually just a few at a time...maybe four or five, then im out of clamps. Do you mix up a really small quantity of Epon for your scarfs or do a bunch all at once? I'm used to mixing enough epon for a rod blank and I'd have to figure out a way to pour/mix really small amounts. Also I'm curious about clamping pressure when using Epon for scarfs. Can you get too much pressure and squeeze all the glue out? Can I test glue some scarfs to see if I like the bond? If so, how long should I wait before I stress the scarf into breaking. In the past I have test glued a few scarfs with excess glue I had after a rod glue up. I then stress bent the scarf and it seemed to pop apart rather easily...easier than the Titebond II. Perhaps I didnt wait until the Epon had fully cured before stress bending it. I'm sure I didnt wait a week. So, before I glue up rod #4 I'd like to do some testing on Epon. I'm nervous about the Titebond II but since I've not had a failure and it's so easy to use I won't make the switch unless I can do some testing. What's your advice?
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Stephen Veefkind		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 68 08/15/2009 18:52	I've given up on clamping my scarfs. I now bind them under tight pressure after gluing up. That way I can do many at a time. Binding also lines up the two pieces better than clamps. If it's off by a skosh, I smack the underside of the split with a rubber hammer and they line up perfectly. I had a bucket full of clamps and it was never enough... now, no problem. Never using Titebond III on splits again. It's now relegated to gluing up cork.
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oldfishbrain		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1381 08/18/2009 08:09	WhoBeBoo: I will send you an email soon. Maker of light line nodeless bamboo fly rods avardanis@sympatico.ca
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How many thousanths to make a significant difference?

How many thousanths to make a significant difference?