There's a Dickerson on Bob Summers website, Great looking rod , But the silks are YELLOW,. would that Turn you off if you were thinking of buying it?
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dickerson
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dickerson |
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Posts: 223 10/14/2009 06:26 |
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RPL |
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Posts: 246 10/14/2009 07:58 |
There's a discussion of Dickerson yellow gold wraps on Banjo's website at: http://fishnbanjosplace.yuku.com/topic/107
Ultimately, of course, your question boils down to a matter of taste. Many would find the yellow wraps especially attractive. Would not be a turn off for me at all. And they fish as well as the brown wraps. I think yellow wraps may even make the rod a bit more collectible. Some might find the yellow flamboyant and out of character for Dickerson, but I think that we should be a bit more broadminded about such things. On top of that, who does better work on Dickersons than Bob Summers!? |
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Mainiac |
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Posts: 755 10/14/2009 08:24 |
I find the Orange/Gold wraps very tasteful and a nice departure from Dickersons standard Brown. I have heard many theories about why Orange/Gold was used.
I don't agree with the "special rod" theory for Orange/Gold wraps. There are too many of them around. Dickerson used this color sparingly before 1940 but rods after 1940 it is quite common. I am fairly certain that Dickerson used it because he ran out or was low on his standard brown. At one time I kept track of how many rods I had seen that had Orange/Gold wraps. I believe it was close to 40% of '39-'49 rods, and especially prevalent in post-war rods up to 1949. Dickerson made over 500 rods during this 3-4 year period. This might help explain why he ran out of standard brown at times. There is another "yellow" that is nothing like the common Orange/Gold. It is more of a light Lemon color. This color is very rarely seen. Here is a few Dickersons I have owned with the Orange wraps 
 
Last Edited By: Mainiac 10/14/2009 09:15.
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Alaric11 |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 101 10/14/2009 09:05 |
I tend to favor Pearsall's Medium Brown, or java wraps. However, I think the various hues of gold (Antique Gold, Gold, Amber, lemon Yellow, etc) can look good as does Orange, Green, and the Clarets. These are all colors found in
nature (especially in Fall) along trout streams. So, a rod or two with a bit of color is probably fun, nice, and a bit of a change from the tasteful,
understated elegance of the browns.
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RPL |
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Posts: 247 10/14/2009 09:47 |
Here, on a rod from 1956, are yellow-gold wraps (as opposed to orange-gold) tipped in black that I believe were used on a few Dickersons. They are
semi-transparent yellow-gold and I think very desirable. Yes, they do go nicely with the leaves in the fall.
Last Edited By: RPL 10/14/2009 10:01.
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mosquito |
Dickerson Rods | #5 | ||
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Posts: 92 10/15/2009 21:33 |
I'm kind of partial to the orange and black, but the yellow and black are also nice. I certainly wouldn't turn down an original Dickerson just based on
Yellow Wraps.
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RPL |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 251 10/17/2009 11:04 |
Hello mosquito. Looks like a full house, aces and kings. Beautiful rods. I see several Dickerson-Bergmans and an 8014 Guide! Hope you have ample
opportunities to fish those beauties.
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 bobk |
A Question | #7 | ||
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Posts: 98 10/17/2009 12:01 |
Mainiac, RPL,
I recently acquired a Dickerson 8013 that is marked "Dickerson 8013-D". Yours are marked "Dickerson 8013". Do either of you or anyone else know the difference or significance between the way these two rods are marked? Mine was built in 1943. The bag is marked "Dickerson 8013 D 4 1/4 oz.". I have been back and forth thru the book "Dickerson The Man and His Rods" and understand that he tried different systems for labeling his rods before he standardized on the length and ferrule size as his standard. In the book the reproduced catalog pages of 1938 & 1947 indicate that the 8013 is built for a size "D" silk line and it also states that some rods were marked "Dickerson-Detroit". There is reference to "Leitz" or "Dickerson-Leitz" as well as "Bergman" or "R.B." as markings but no reference to just using the letter "D". The book on page 93 references the ledger and shows 8013's in 6 different models [8013, 8013 Stock, 8013 Dry Fly, 8013 Special, 8013 Special Parabolic and 8013 Streamer]. Bob
Last Edited By: bobk 10/17/2009 12:03.
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Mainiac |
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Posts: 758 10/17/2009 14:02 |
Dickerson's were marked in many different ways over his 20 year full time operation. Many of his 3 pc. rods were marked in this manner, though it was more
common earlier on. The 2 pc. rods & rods built after 1940 tend not to be marked with the line weight. Who knows why Dickerson marked your rod with the line
weight? Maybe on a whim, maybe by request? In either case "D" is the proper line weight for a "standard" 8013 according to Dickerson's
catalog. My guess is your rod is a normal 8013, though "normal" is loosely based since they usually vary slightly.
More intriguing is Dickerson's war-time activities. I have a copy of his pre-war records which stop in 1942. As far as I know he did not resume production until 1946. At least there are no records of rods being made during that period, though I am sure there were. I am quite certain that Dickerson continued rodmaking full time, or close to it, during the war. I feel he was stock piling blanks, components, and semi finished rods. In the 3 years following the war he made 150-180 rods per year. A feat which is all but impossible. I can't think of another explanation. bobk, I do believe your rod is important but not because it is marked "D" but because it was built in '43 at a time when supposedly there were no rods being made. I will search the records and see if I can turn up anything similar during the early 40's. As for the Dickerson book.. while it is an important contribution to our hobby, it is not the last word on Dickerson rods. Most of its important contents were taken from Tim Bedfords writings in the American Fly Fisher. The rest of the research content leaves something to be desired. |
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bobk |
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Posts: 99 10/17/2009 14:15 |
Mainiac, Thank you for your reply. If it helps with your looking things up the rod tube has masking tape wrapped around it in 2 places with "W K Stauffer
Dickerson 1943" written on them, and the brass tube cap is marked "8ft Dickerson 1943". The printing is not precise like Dickersons so I am
guessing it was put on by someone else. For what reason I don not know. Bob
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Mainiac |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 759 10/17/2009 20:15 |
There is a fair chance your rod was made prior to '43 if it is only marked on the tube. Having a name helps alot. I'll look it up in the records and if
it is the original owner there is a good chance I'll find the rod in the ledger.
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Mainiac |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 760 10/17/2009 22:09 |
bobk,
Found your rod! Order taken on July 13, 1940 ordered through Art Flick's shop in Westkill , NY. Entry reads : July 13, 1940- W.K. Stauffer c/o Mercoid Co. Phila. (Art Flick) 8013 $30 + $10 com. (commission) Aug. '40 (delivery date) If you send me your email address, I'll scan the page and send it to you. Marc |
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bobk |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 100 10/18/2009 09:14 |
Marc,
That is fantastic. WOW ! To have that kind of provenance really is great. Looking at the rod, which by the way appears to be all original, with the slight grooves in both tip tops and the other areas where you can see it has been well used but also well cared for makes you wish it could talk and tell you of the places it's been, the fish it's brought in, and in who's company it may have been in and the reel it carried. I really appreciate your efforts in not only answering my questions but in taking the time to look up the record for the rod. You can reach me at rkayes [at] optonline (.) net. Thank you very much, Bob |
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JimP.fishnbanjosplace |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 105 10/18/2009 11:46 |
This is really exciting news. We now know when the rod was ordered and by whom. Excellent!! You have a great rod there Bob. Congratulations! I am very happy
for you!
best, Jim P |
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quashnet |
Stauffer and Flick: more history | #14 | ||
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Posts: 2840 10/18/2009 12:17 Moderatus Muscae |
Art Flick recognized Willis Stauffer in the Acknowledgments page of the original Streamside Guide and the New Streamside Guide: "to Willis Stauffer, for having started me on that most
enjoyable of pastimes, fly-tying."
"[Preston] Jennings was a frequent visitor to the charming West Kill Tavern, fishing the tumbling West Kill and the pastoral Schoharie. The proprietor was Arthur Flick, and Jennings and Chip Stauffer taught Flick the secrets of dressing and fishing the elegant flies of the Catskill school." ".. skilled fishermen like Chip Stauffer... talked Leisenring into organizing his notebooks into The Art of Tying the Wet Fly in 1941..." - Ernest Schwiebert, Nymphs "Ray Bergman... often made the West Kill Tavern his headquarters in the northern Catskills. Willis Stauffer and Preston Jennings were frequent guests in those half-forgotten springtimes before Pearl Harbor. Flick had learned the rudiments of fly-making from Clarence Banks, who lived on the Schoharie at Lexington, but Stauffer turned the innkeeper into an artisan." - - Ernest Schwiebert, Nymphs Vol. 1, The Mayflies - The Major Species
Quashnet's Paul H. Young Rod Database has photos and descriptions of over 490 PHY Co. rods, plus catalogs, accessories,
etc. Thank you to all who continue to send me PHY rod photos and info.
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bobk |
#15 | |||
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Posts: 101 10/18/2009 15:44 |
Mainiac, Quashnet,
Thank you for offering some really great provenance for this rod. It's always nice to have some kind of history about an older rod or a reel. If only they could speak! Bob |
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