ISO cane actions similar to Winston graphite 8'6" 3 & 5 wt. IM6 rods

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cregb	ISO cane actions similar to Winston graphite 8'6" 3 & 5 wt. IM6 rods		Lead	[-]
Posts: 59 10/19/2009 23:14	Tags : None I've dabbled with cane rods for the last year or so and am starting to appreciate many of the tapers that I have cast. I am looking for a good tailwater rod that can emulate the casting stroke and action in my Winston IM6 graphite rods. I have a 8'6" IM6 5 weight and a 8'6" 3 weight rod that I absolutely love casting. Can anyone recommend tapers that might capture a similar action to those rods? I know a number of board members have added the 8'6" 5 weight as one of the graphite rods they never got rid of; I would like to learn which cane rod they have supplanted it with. A 3/2 configuration is a bonus for travel(i.e. vacations) but as I drive to this tailwater, the number of sections is not really a determining factor. Also, I have owned the 8'6" IM6 4 wt. by Winston and found it a bit too soft for my liking. I have in my collection: Wm. Abrams Dickerson 8013 2/2 RBS special (this rod is a cannon for me and closest to my 5 weight graphite) Carlin modified-Winston 6'3" 3/2 3 weight Thramer PHY Perfectionist 7'6" 2/2 4/5 weight Thramer Dickerson 6611 2/1 3/4 weight(arriving shortly) Heddon #20 8' 1 3/4 ferrule 3/2 (to be restored soon) I'm not hell bent on the 8'6" length but more on the action of the rod. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I'm wondering if I need to try a Garrison taper soon. Regards- Creg
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gmflyfish	Rods similar to Winston Graphite	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1234 10/20/2009 08:43	Wayne Maca at Beaverhead rods makes the fastest bamboo rod I know of that imitates Graphite and has the feel of bamboo. Wayne used to work for Winston so he should know and be able to help you with a complimentary rod. Gregg
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mer		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3260 10/20/2009 08:58	gmflyfish wrote: Wayne Maca at Beaverhead rods makes the fastest bamboo rod I know of that imitates Graphite and has the feel of bamboo. Wayne used to work for Winston so he should know and be able to help you with a complimentary rod. Gregg I won't disagree with this, but a Winston IM6 does not have a "typical" graphite feel. I had a 5wt, 8'6" in fact a while ago (pre bamboo days). Very nice full flexing action when loaded with a Cortland 444 Peach in DT5. I would call it a "medium" or a progressive action. Don't have it to cast back to back, but I think the action was very Payne-like (smooth, full flexing, even flex (not like a parabolic)). A Garrison taper would probably be an alternative, not an "E" version with more cane. There is usually only a limited amount of damage that can be done by dull or stupid people. For creating a truly monumental disaster, you need people with high IQs.
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bulldog1935		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7554 10/20/2009 09:23 Bulldog1935	there is a long list of semi-parabolic rods there. I would think if you want to duplicate a Winston progressive taper, you would want a cane rod with a progressive taper. Light tip, gently flared butt. I would say an 8-1/2' Heddon. 2F ferrule if you want to fish a 6-wt., and 1-3/4F would let you fish a WF4 or DT5. So I think you have the rod you're looking for sitting there in the wings. the rods are never obsolete - the marketing is.
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creakycane		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2352 10/20/2009 10:13	Bulldog - That's exactly what I was thinking - if the Heddon is castable, I'd try it on the lawn with a 5 next to the Winston..... I'd be curious of your impressions if you can do this, Creg......
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DrakeBob		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1590 10/20/2009 10:59 Formerly Drake	This topic of finding a bamboo rod that emulates a particular graphite rod has come up a few times now. Here's my 2 cents worth of opinion and it will be worth every penny you pay for it. I happen to be a big fan of the Winston (early) IM6, 8 ½', 5wt in the 3/1 format. I don't particularly like the newer version IM6, now called "WT." You don't say which version you own and like. The newer ones are more graphite-like. I owned the early version, sold it, regretted that deeply and then beat the bushes until I found another like it, what I call "early" IM6 (blank made for Winston by Fisher) with a cap and ring seat. If asked to pick my top three all-around graphite trout rods, this rod would make the cut. It is, as described, a wonderful medium-actioned rod. But here's the thing… action aside, it weighs only 2 5/8 oz. IMHO, even if you find an 8 ½' 3pc, progressive and/or medium-action 5wt in bamboo, it will still "feel" different. In the case of the graphite, you're casting air; in the case of the bamboo, you've got some mass that has to be moved. The casting strokes will be different. What I would do, at the very minimum, is look for a hollow-built bamboo rod with the specifications you want. You'll still not replicate the Winston graphite exactly, but I believe you'll come closer. My guess - and I've never tried to "supplant" graphite with bamboo, or vice versa, so it's nothing but a guess - is that you're looking for something along the lines of a hollow-built version of an 8 ½' Payne. I can't speak to the Heddons. Like I said… 2 cents and worth every penny. Good luck in your search... Piscator Non Solum Piscatur
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Alaric11		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 115 10/20/2009 11:11	I think Drakebob offers sound advice. I was a big fan of my Winston 8'6" JWF WT. I finally sold it since it seemed a pity to have it gather dust. I think you have to be careful in characterizing the action of the WT. For me it was a lot faster than the 70's fiberglass and the Superfines that I had fished exclusively for 20 years, BUT the WT and the Sage SLT were still in a zone that I was comfortable with. My bamboo rods are much closer to the Superfines in feel than the WT and hence suit the idiosyncracies of habit that are mine. I'm not sure you will find a family resemblance between a Garrison taper and the Winston, or if you do it will be like that of a distant cousin. So, I would follow DB's advise and form new habits with a somewhat different style of rod.
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cregb		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 60 10/20/2009 11:36	Thanks to all for your comments so far. I don't expect to find an exact match for the IM6 Winstons, but something reminiscent without going completely down the wrong path(i.e. the recommendation against parabolic tapers). DrakeBob- just for reference the Winstons I have are the IM6 "newer" graphite(later named the WT), not the pre-IM6 or IM6 early rods. I have a pre-IM6 8' 3 weight Winston that is a completely different rod in my hands than the newer IM6 8'6" 3 weight IM6/WT rod-so yes, I like the WT action. It sounds like a Payne or Garrison may be a good rod for me to try next. Creaky, I'd try the Heddon, but it has some guides loose that may affect casting. Thanks again-
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Alaric11		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 116 10/20/2009 11:50	Out of curiosity how do you feel about the actions of the rods you have? It seems like you are fond of the Dickerson. How do you like the Perfectionist ? I love my Maurer version and the Garrison and Payne tapers I've tried. I don't think you can go badly wrong with a Garrison. I love my 201 (Carlin) and a 209e and 212e should arrive at the end of the year.
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cregb		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 61 10/20/2009 20:36	Alaric, I'm still undecided about the Perfectionist. I've only tried it with WF4 and 5 wt. lines and prefer it with a SA Mastery WF5 line, although I need to try it with some TT and DT lines, I think, to give it a fair shake. I fished it last weekend on a small stream and in close, it is unremarkable to me and feels a little stiff. Longer casts from 20-30 feet seemed to get the rod to flex a bit more and load better. I am looking forward to casting it on a larger stream, and as mentioned, with a number of different lines.
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Alaric11		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 120 10/20/2009 20:50	Creg, I'm not sure that it is safe to make an analogy since my rod by Maurer is only Perfectionist based but here goes. (1) I found that the Wulff Long Belly 5wt line REALLY makes a difference on the rod, George [Maurer] said that it would. (2) I mentioned this "in tight" problem that you had to Chris Carlin and he offered some useful advice: "in close treat the Perfectionist like a tip action rod." Of course, one's stroke is always quicker with less line out, but what I think he meant (and this interpretation worked for me) was DON'T TRY to get the rod to load deep into the butt as it does with 15' or more of line out---just load the tip with quicker, sharper strokes with heavily accented pauses. This also worked REALLY well.
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firehole		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4050 10/20/2009 20:59 Local user	Merrick era 8' 2/2 5wt. 4oz. medium action very similar to Winston IM6(not WT's) which I've owned. The Merrick era 8' 2/2 3 3/4oz. is a medium/fast 4/5wt. Dennis
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ISO cane actions similar to Winston graphite 8'6" 3 & 5 wt. IM6 rods

ISO cane actions similar to Winston graphite 8'6" 3 & 5 wt. IM6 rods