Cheers and Safe Fishing
Bob
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joaniebo |
Tying Leaders |
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Although a bunch of us may tie / fish the flies that we assemble, I wonder how many of us tie / fish leaders (knotted or furled) that we make ourselves?
Personally, for the past several years, I've been tying knotted leaders using Climax Ultragreen mono with the dimensions shown in Oliver Kite's book
"Nymph Fishing in Practice" ... and I've given a few to some of my TU Chapter buddies who have also used them (probably because they were free
!).
Cheers and Safe Fishing Bob |
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bobbeegee |
#1 | |||
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I'm just now, after all these years, beginning to tie my own leaders Bob.
"Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys which distract our attention from serious things. They are but an improved means to an unimproved
end."
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Flyman615 |
Tying leaders | #2 | ||
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I've tied my own leaders for years with Maxima and hard nylon material.
I still use the late George Harvey's time-tested formulas which are very adaptable/extend-able.
Regards,
Flyman "There are three things in life that people like to stare at: a flowing stream, a crackling fire and a Zamboni clearing the ice."-Charlie Brown |
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RonT1 |
#3 | |||
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I started making my own compound mono leaders shortly after I saw my first commercially made one (70's,Orvis,?)
and learned to tie a blood knot. Those followed some published formulas, but mostly were customised to my casting needs. Made my own furleing jig about a year ago and have since replaced all of the compound ones with furled. These are made up with Uni, mono, and silk depending on where I use them. R |
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joaniebo |
#4 | |||
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Bob
The dimensions / info shown in Kite's book are: "4 ft 6 in of .016 in, 10 in of .012 in, 10 in of .009 in, 10 in of .008 in and 3 ft of .007 in. Using continental nylon, I make up my normal cast as follows: 1.50 metres of 0.40 mm, 0.25 m of 0.32 mm, 0.25 m of 0.24 mm, 0.25 m of 0.18 mm and 1.00 m of 0.16 mm." That being said, based on the Ultragreen available to me, I tie the leaders, as follows: 54 in -20 lb, 10 in of 12 lb, 10 in of 6 lb, 10 in of 5 lb and 36 in of 4 lb. If I want lighter leaders, I use: 54 in -15 lb, 10 in of 8 lb, 10 in of 5 lb, 10 in of 4 lb and 36 in of 3 lb. A small Perfection Loop is tied on the thickest section before tying on the next length. Although some might say that it might be better to use a Barrel or Blood knot, I find it easier and faster to use a 3-turn Surgeon's knot between each length. Best Bob PS - To me, it's a real thrill to catch a fish on a rod that I assembled (I buy blanks) with a leader and fly that I tied. I'll pass on making my own fly lines and reels !
Last Edited By: joaniebo 10/29/2009 12:19.
Edited 1 time.
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16 pmd |
#5 | |||
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Whatever taper you use for the main leader, extending without sacrificing turnover can be done by extending the butt rather than a tippet. To change from
12'/6X to 15'/7X, I would cut the 6X back to about 8" and then add the 7X tippet to it. This will only make your total leader longer by about
6" (after knots use about 2"). You can then make the leader longer by extending the butt section by, say 3'. This will keep the line farther away
from the fish and will still turn over almost as well as the original leader. Trying to extend by 3' by adding additional fine material at the front end
will significantly hurt the turnover. Carrying a spool of 20 or 25# butt material allows you to make this kind of extension very easy.
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cdmoore |
What 16 pmd said | #6 | ||
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Right on.
"If you finish in 7 days, I'll pay you for 10. If you finish in 10 days, I'll pay you for 7." ~Ballykissangel
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DrLogik |
#7 | |||
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I've been tying my own for probably 20 years or more. I used to use the Mason's hard mono for the butt and whatever was on hand for the mid and tippet
"butt" for about 8 years now I have been a soft mono convert. I read in a magazine a long time ago, maybe written by Harvey or Kreh...can't
recall which, where they argued why soft mono is better than hard mono for the butt. The argument made sense and when I tested the theory on the lawn and the
water, soft mono DEFINITELY transitions the line's energy better from the main line.
When I found out that DaiRiki was discontinueing their Velvet mono I was saddened. A little Googling and I found some 1x 9' and 12' foot Velvet leaders on sale on sierratradingpost.com and bought 30 or 40 packs. They were priced at something like $.50 a piece. Perfect! I cut the butt off of those and knotted the mid and tippets with another brand (velvet is almost too soft for tippet). I guard my leaders carefully because once my supply is gone, it's gone. For the most part, you can't go wrong with Orvis though. I prefer a butt-loaded leader and go with a 70-20-10 ratio for butt-mid-tippet. Got that tip from a fly casting school out West many years ago. I find that they turn over really well in any situaton and still give a delicate presentation...especially in the longer lengths (12-16 feet in length). A 16' 5x or 6x leader built with a 70-20-10 ratio with Velvet as the butt section can turn a dry fly over just by casting the leader in ones hand. I didn't believe it until one of those instructors showed me. Been a convert on that 70-20-10 (also) ever since.
Last Edited By: DrLogik 10/29/2009 18:16.
Edited 4 times.
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pvansch1 |
#8 | |||
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I twist my own furled leaders from Uni thread. 5' mostly.
Pete
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narcodog |
#9 | |||
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I have tied many compond leaders but then I found Airflo butts and now I use furled leaders. I like the idea of the ease of changing tippets. I guess I am lazy
or just incomptant in tyong a blood knot on the stream.
For a long time I used an Orvis kit then that morphed into using Maxima and Orvis. |
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nativebrownie |
#10 | |||
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Revisited McClane's Practical Fly fisherman and tried his DT design as listed - adapted it to 8' small stream leader and found it roll casted very well
and most of all was accurate at real close range - ie. 4' of line and then leader...
Anderson's 12' leader is a great design... |
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blacknosedace |
Tying leaders | #11 | ||
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I've been tying my own for quite a while. Performance was spotty until I found Borger's NYMPHING. The recipes in there work very nicely for me (and
they conform fairly closely to Doc Logik's 70-20-10). I rarely use anything but Orvis SS.
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Bucktrout |
#12 | |||
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I've always tied my own leaders but every now and then when I get the leader tangled around one of the knots or the knots get covered with algae, I think
it would be nice to have a knotless leader.
But I keep using my own hand tied leaders for the design flexibility and always being able to know my tippet length and diameter. |
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retrotrout |
#13 | |||
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I've tied my leaders for many years. Did some experimentation about mono qualities, and settled on Trilene XL, which is just about the most limp, stretchy
mono I've ever used. It's also really cheap and can be bought at many places which definitely would not qualify as fly shops, if you know what I mean.
The 1lb test, usually available in the Fall, is for ice fishing. It's a great 7-8x. Otherwise, the 2lb and 4lb work for tippet. Trout can't discern a
different diameter of .0005. The 2lb is between 5 and 6x, and the 4lb is between 3 and 4x. Works for me.
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waltryan1 |
#14 | |||
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I too have been tying my own leaders for a long time. I use Maxima chameleon down to 3x or 4x and clear Maxima after that. I nail knot the leader to the line
and use blood knots when building a leader at home. When adding tippet or repairing a leader while fishing I use a double surgeon's knot. For anyone who
wants to try this a good place to start is with the section on leaders in ch 2 of A.K. Best's book "Fly Fishing with A.K.
Tying your own leaders isn't rocket science but you do still have to match your tippet size to the size of your fly. |
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robcane |
#15 | |||
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I tie my own with Maxima Chameleon butts/mids, then supple mono (i.e., Umpqua or the like) for tippet section.
I like the way Maxima turns over, especially when I need to punch leader under thick overhanging brush on small streams, or in wind on larger water. For more delicate presentations I use Maxima/Umpqua with Harvey formula. I use a very small perfection loop on leader butt, connecting it with 'handshake' to hard mono loop nailed to flyline. I have not had any trouble with snags or anything with this connection, and it's convenient. I put a tiny drop of superglue on all leader knots, incl. loop, for added insurance. On the stream I just use double surgeons to add tippet. I'm sure most of you have seen this but if not, here's a Web site with many leader recipes -- http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/download.php We few We happy few We bamboo brothers |
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leadwingcoachman |
#16 | |||
robcane wrote:How long is the hard mono loop? |
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nwdlj |
no turnover | #17 | ||
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I've made my leaders since I started fly fishing as I couldn't afford to buy them, Harvey's formula and others being used and use whatever formula
fits the fishing needs...but the oddest one that I have used was for a "no turnover", i.e. almost a dumpcast of the leader where the leader would
pile up almost on top of the fly....an old timer in the SMNP taught me the leader and the style of fishing that he used for those small streams in western edge
of the park, Forney Creek, Nathan Creek, Deep Creek etc that always had these small pockets of eddies, slack water, and spot holding areas that the fish just
sat in...he said that he didn't want turnover as the bigger fish wanted a very long time "no motion drift" fly presented to them before they
would move on the fly...so he used a 9' three section leader that was built from 3 foot lengths of 1x, 3X, and 5X material, all connected with loop to loop
connections and the same flies, a size 14 Thunderhead or a Yellerhammer...it was amazing at how it killed the energy transfer and dumped the leader right where
the end of the line hit....so you could use an overpowered cast to get in under rhodies and such but still not have the fly get cast too far and not get caught
by the micro currents.....the main current would just take the slack line and the leader slack and take it downstream, all the while the fly would just sit
there waiting for the slack to be taken out...the fish would sit there and watch it and after 5 seconds or so, then they would come up and take the fly....hard
to believe if I hadn't seen him take so many fish that way, and it worked perfectly for the side eddies of the plunge pool at the head of a pool as he
would sidearm cast the line in the fast water, the leader and fly in the eddy slack water, and let the mess sit there in the eddy as the line went downstream.
He also had a very effective "figure 8 cast" where he would take the rod tip and make a big sideways 8 in front of him and then dump the cast at the
downstroke, making any rhodie catching backcast unnecessary, kind of an tip cast air roll so to speak, like a "snake cast" in spey language...he also
had an "air mend" where he would dance the line in the air with vertical flips of the line, holding a fly motionless under it, with no line or leader
on the water, all this needing a totally limp leader...anyway, he did everything not by the book, never turning over his fly, and caught a lot of big
fish...after taking the time to learn it, I started catching bigger fish and found out that the Smokie's reputation for just small fish was a bit
undeserved, they just have been selectively harvested to wait it out....a NC guide by the name of Mack Brown wrote a book about this titled "Casting
Angles" which he self published and sold out of his house in the 90's...very interesting premise and one that works for special occasions...dj
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robcane |
#18 | |||
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nwdlj,
great stuff... sounds like a killer casting/leader setup. will have to give it a go up here in catskills, plenty of hemlocks and laurel jungles on small streams too. leadwing, i make the 20 or 25# mono as short as possible coming off the fly line, like less than an inch. i tie the loop very small as well, to make it all very compact. We few We happy few We bamboo brothers |
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Joel Anderson |
Leader Formulas | #19 | ||
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One of the best purchases I made as a new fly fisherman back in the early 80's was a copy of Art Lee's Fishing Dry Flies for Trout on River &
Streams. Along with some first rate information on dry fly presentation, the book included a couple of dozen dry fly leader formulas that I still use
today. Although the formulas may be a bit on the anal side (3" of this; 4" of that), they encourage the incorporation of both stiff and soft material
and they turn a dry fly over with just the right amount of slack. "Like butter!" Shorten the dry fly leader a little to the 2x material and
they turn into a great streamer leader.
BTW, would soemone tell me what they are trying to accomplish with a furled leader that can't be done with a compound mono leader? I don't get it!
joel |
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baetisrodhani |
70-20-10 ratio ? | #20 | ||
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Hello DrLogik,
Excuse me if I don't see what 70-20-10 ratio means... Could you enlighten me ? Many thanks ! Giles |
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