So what do you do???

0 Kudos

Author	Comment
canerodscom		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2325 11/11/2009 22:34 Bamboo preacher	Bill has received some good advice. Sadly, too many good rod makers are not very good business men. But I would point out that most rod makers work hard for meager wages, are honest as the day is long, and once in a while have trouble collecting from customers who place orders. The scale tilts both directions. Harry Harry Boyd maker@canerods.com My website canerods.com My blog -- canerods.blogspot.com Ozark Rod Makers School
Interact My Recent Posts
oneculm		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 689 11/12/2009 08:36	I am sorry it has nothing to do with being a good or bad rod maker or plumber or artist or lawyer. These are not bad business men but out right thieves.I keep going on with this and I am sorry but it angers me.
Interact My Recent Posts
rlnunleycom	Thanks, AJ!	#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 570 11/12/2009 10:13	AJ Bamboo wrote: you want some unvarnished truth? OK, here you go. You are boned, yeah screwed, by another over priced dilettante builder/non builder. Crap, i am sooooo tired of this.... The builders ego and unwarranted press works its magic and there you are, behind all the 'cool' customers. The vast majority of $2500+ rods that I have seen are worse than my bottom line $800 rod in fit and finish, let alone integrity of construction, where there is no comparison. Man, am i going to get a raft of crap about this, but i am past caring. Grumpy AJ You said what needed to be said from a rodmakers perspective. No raft of crap from me, AJ... Although, I am kind of an egotistical bastard myself! I just never learned, as a maker, to kiss the right a$$es or inflate my ability or experience beyond reasonable limits. If I had, then I'd have a 6 year waiting list, too! I'm comfortable getting rods out relatively fast and fishing when I want! Disclaimer: I'm not saying that EVERYONE with an extended waiting period is a mediocre rodmaker... just a good number of them. There are those who self promote, or were over promoted by friends, that make mediocre rods with mediocre finishes & mediocre wraps and hardware, yet have huge backlogs. Then there are those that have huge backlogs because they're great rodmakers. Sort em out, yourself! RL "Bob" Nunley, Rodmaker Ozark Rodmaking School
Interact My Recent Posts
Whitefish Press		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 620 11/12/2009 11:14 Sic transit piscatoria Clark's	Here's an interesting aside. I gave a talk last night to 150 members of the Buckeye United Fly Fishing Club here in Cincinnati last night on the history of the fly rod. After it was over, I was inundated with questions (I brought a couple dozen rods for them to check out ranging from Payne to Montague to Divine to McHarg to and 1850s rod). THREE individuals--one group of two and another by himself--approached me with the exact same question about buying a new bamboo fly rod. Not only had all three been told by "reputable" makers they would have to wait anywhere from 2-4 years after a hefty deposit, but one of them had actually seen this very thread and wondered if all rod makers were criminals. I don't think rodmakers who act in this manner realize the damage they are doing. A few bad apples makes it harder for the rest. And yes, I took the liberty of giving them the contact info for a half dozen makers who won't make them put half the money down and won't make them wait four years. Bob, by the way one of the attendees at the talk was Bob Gustafson from your last Ozark class. He could not say enough nice things about it--just loved the experience. I wish I had known he was coming so he could have brought his rod. -- Dr. Todd
Interact My Recent Posts
wctc1	About this time last year ...	#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 330 11/12/2009 11:52	... a woman called me. Someone had given her my name. She'd put down a big deposit on a cane rod as Christmas gift for her husband two years ago! I encouraged her to get a refund, gave her the names and numbers of four or five makers with a series of questions to ask each. She let me know her problem was solved. And in my alleged mind, she made an excellent choice of where to purchase her husband's rod. That made me wonder about a project I'd do if I didn't waste all my money researching books. It seems to me that a very nice two-fold brochure sent out to many respectable fly shops might go a long way toward helping people chose a cane rod, chose a maker, and help them understand how to care for their cane. Since people value what they pay for, my concept was to give the fly shops the brochures in a stand {readily available} and let them charge .25 each. In about two years, a lot of bamboo information would be "out there." It would also help our makers. AJ RULES. But, I wish he'd talk a little straighter so I could figure out what he's trying to say. JHektor, who will now pull the rock back over real tight.
Interact My Recent Posts
Boo.fiberglassflyro...	Contracts?	#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 229 11/12/2009 12:04	One of the best spey rod builder's is Bob Meiser. When buying a rod from him he sends the buyer a contract on the the rod model, components the buyer wants, the price and due date the rod will be finished [guaranteed], which the buyer signs with deposit. He's been in business for many years and has the highest standards as well as reputation in the spey rod world. Why don't cane rod builders do the same?
Interact My Recent Posts
mer		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3283 11/12/2009 12:34	Boo wrote: One of the best spey rod builder's is Bob Meiser. When buying a rod from him he sends the buyer a contract on the the rod model, components the buyer wants, the price and due date the rod will be finished [guaranteed], which the buyer signs with deposit. He's been in business for many years and has the highest standards as well as reputation in the spey rod world. Why don't cane rod builders do the same? No reason they can't; I suspect some are working the way they want to (don't want to deal with paperwork). I think email works well as an alternative way of documenting wants, delivery date, deposits; I hate calling people on the phone, mostly because I don't want to break any flow they may have going at the moment, and frankly my "awake hours" are what lots of people consider odd. I can send an email on my time, they can read and answer it on their time, either with the first cup of coffee in the morning or the last thing before a nightcap. As Harry points out, there are problem customers also. How many times has a rodmaker gotten the shaft from customers before he put a draconian policy into place? How much of a deposit is actually needed? If you have a contractor coming to do work on your house, you typically have a contract which spells out payment schedule against work to be done. Perhaps a combination of a written agreement and a deposit (maybe no more than one third the total price) works best for both parties. I don't know, I'm not a maker, I'm a user. Out of the three rods I had made specifically for me, one bad experience, two outstanding ones. The two outstanding ones were basically started on a handshake, and me offering a deposit when I got uncomfortable with the amount of work that had been done without me paying anything. The other, well, a year or two past the original delivery date with nary a peep in response to phone calls and emails, soured me quite quickly on the rod. Yes, it did show up, but as I stated earlier, I didn't keep it very long. There is usually only a limited amount of damage that can be done by dull or stupid people. For creating a truly monumental disaster, you need people with high IQs.
Interact My Recent Posts
Boo.fiberglassflyro...		#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 230 11/12/2009 12:57	I know there are bad buyers [tit for tat] as well. But, generally the maker gets a deposit, and/or will eventually still sell the vacated rod to another buyer. But, that's another thread. This is about the buyer and he is out of money and a rod. Let's stay on track.
Interact My Recent Posts
wctc1		#29	[url]	[-]
Posts: 331 11/12/2009 13:01	Boo wrote: One of the best spey rod builder's is Bob Meiser. He's been in business for many years and has the highest standards as well as reputation in the spey rod world. Bob's a great and very funny guy. My wife and I really had a good time talking with him when I was researching OregonBoo. We talked to him in Ashland between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Ashland is sort of like old hippie / artist heaven in Oregon. I still have the photograph of "organic" Christmas trees for sale in the lot next to the old mill where we had evening coffee. Only in Ashland ... I encourage anyone looking for a spey rod to give Bob a call.
Interact My Recent Posts
Whitefish Press		#30	[url]	[-]
Posts: 621 11/12/2009 13:15 Sic transit piscatoria Clark's	Perhaps the people best suited to police this kind of activity is the American Bamboo Rodmakers Association. I don't know exactly what their stated purpose is, but I imagine that if they, or another similar organization, would give out a "seal of approval" for reputably makers it would help novice buyers to know that they are in good hands, and that there is recourse beyond the court system if something goes wrong. Just a thought. -- Dr. Todd
Interact My Recent Posts
canerodscom		#31	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2326 11/12/2009 15:15 Bamboo preacher	Todd, Sadly, ABRA is not active at the moment. Recent well-intentioned efforts to revive it have fizzled out. As no one knows better than you, running such an organization is a tremendous amount of work. Harry PS -- thanks for the kind words. Bob is a great guy and really enjoyed the ORMS class. Harry Boyd maker@canerods.com My website canerods.com My blog -- canerods.blogspot.com Ozark Rod Makers School
Interact My Recent Posts
cwood		#32	[url]	[-]
Posts: 652 11/12/2009 15:19	Boo wrote: One of the best spey rod builder's is Bob Meiser. When buying a rod from him he sends the buyer a contract on the the rod model, components the buyer wants, the price and due date the rod will be finished [guaranteed], which the buyer signs with deposit. He's been in business for many years and has the highest standards as well as reputation in the spey rod world. Why don't cane rod builders do the same The Internet makes it pretty easy to dish out money based on a virtual handshake. A hard copy order form and receipt stating exactly what was ordered, the deposit paid, the balance, and the expected delivery date is hard to beat. I know John Gallas does exactly that and then adds his company stamp to the receipt. JD Wagner also has a similar system. That's basically a contract in my eyes and is very comforting, plus it limits mistakes since both parties have all the same information. If there is no deposit taken then I guess it shouldn't really matter, which is the way it works with some makers, especially if you are friends or a prior customer.
Interact My Recent Posts
rsagebrush		#33	[url]	[-]
Posts: 593 11/13/2009 12:20	I too have been screwed by a couple of maker's, one made good on it a couple of years later and sent me a complete refund after a couple of years of pestering. So, all is forgiven but I will never order another rod from him. At least he made good on it eventually. Another took my cash never delivered, didn't sign for the cert. letter, doesn't return calls etc.. and I don't mind mentioning his name if the subject presents itself. Happily I have seen several of his overpriced rods on some sites and they don't sell very fast, if at all- I hope its a Karma attack for life. As for AJ his only problem is He makes a great product at a great price but unfortunately he always delivers on time! Hey thats the way I run my business too- what's wrong with us? Hey, it a stick with a taper, you know. Some's nicer than others.
Interact My Recent Posts
mer		#34	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3286 11/13/2009 12:54	I assume that if someone is selling rods (or at least taking money for the purpose of building them) they should be "enough of a business" to pay any taxes on the money received? Would a complaint with the BBB be a way to register a problem with the person? I don't think it would help resolve the situation, but I'm thinking more for the future. I know lots of people that routinely go search BBB records for contractors they are thinking about having do work (roofing, landscaping, etc), why not us try and use it to help point out problems? I thought that was the whole purpose of the BBB. Just my opinions, as stated previously if one disagrees or thinks I'm FOS, then just ignore anything I have to say...
Interact My Recent Posts
BluDun55	me too	#35	[url]	[-]
Posts: 65 11/14/2009 12:15	Had the same thing happen to me. A well known, experienced rod maker took a $300 deposit from me for a custom rod that was part of a commemorative series. When three years passed with no rod, I demanded my money back. To his credit, the rodmaker sent me a check promptly but with no explanation, apology or interest! When I sent him the deposit check, I requested a dated receipt. I stayed in touch with him every six to twelve months and saved the correspondence. At 1 1/2 years out, he sent a note promising the rod in 6 months. The second year passed with no rod. When I wrote demanding my money back, I sent copies of my receipt, and letters from him. I am not ordering any more rods but I can tell you there are only a few rodmakers that I would now send a deposit check to. I like Bob Summers' policy!
Interact My Recent Posts
tapermaker		#36	[url]	[-]
Posts: 854 11/16/2009 18:05	as an honest and struggling rod maker i charge 200.00 deposit to cover costs of hardware.At this time i`m not able to have a stock of anything like what is needed to just pull it off the shelf.hell ,with the amt of orders i`ve had since the depression started,i`m luck to have a roof over my head.
Interact My Recent Posts
oldtrout		#37	[url]	[-]
Posts: 134 11/17/2009 15:33	That has happened twice to me, but it was my fault. Instead of sending the required deposit, I paid for each rod in full at the time I placed the order. I guess these well-known and highly respected rod builders felt no monetary obligation to finish my rods in any sort of timely manner, seeing as they had already been paid and had no incentive. And I know for a fact that rods ordered over a year after my rods had been paid for were delivered to their buyers while my rods were still (probably) culms. And these were not "special order" rods either, just their standard offerings. From now on, any new rods I purchase will be from makers who post here. Last Edited By: oldtrout 11/17/2009 15:38. Edited 1 time.
Interact My Recent Posts
jeffkn1		#38	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2099 11/22/2009 12:49	I don't buy new rods, but I do get new tip sections and scarfs done. I'm not going to use any names but I post this only to show what my experiences have been: Maker A: Ordered new mid section, paid in advance, from this maker because he claimed he always had a few on hand. Took 4 weeks. Maker B: Paid in advance for a tip for my 8' Thomas. That was in 2002. 'Because I'm his friend', he wants me to drive the 9-hours round trip so we can visit. That means a motel room overnight, the cost of which will exceed the amount I paid him 7 years ago. Maker C: Sent two rods, one for scarfs and one for new tips, for which I furnished blanks. It's been over 6 months and counting........ Maker D: Sent him a Hawes for which he was going to make me two new tips. Two years later he finally just bought the sections because he hadn't made the tips and I asked him to send the sections back. Maker E: Waiting 2 months plus for a scarf. Maker F: Shipped rods for various repairs 3 times in the last 4 months. All have been completed and returned in 1 to 2 weeks, usually going above and beyond on every one of them. I can tell you that Makers A-F probably may not get any more work from me, and it won't make any difference to them because they have enough new rod orders, or they have higher priorities than the nickel-and-dime customers like me. Maker F will continue to get my business.
Interact My Recent Posts
PYochim		#39	[url]	[-]
Posts: 978 11/22/2009 21:20	oldtrout wrote: Instead of sending the required deposit, I paid for each rod in full at the time I placed the order. I guess these well-known and highly respected rod builders felt no monetary obligation to finish my rods in any sort of timely manner, seeing as they had already been paid and had no incentive. And no conscience, either. I've dealt with one rodmaker who does not require a deposit. I've dealt with two that require a reasonable deposit. Different ways of doing business, but the end result was the same, a satisfied buyer and maker.
Interact My Recent Posts
bigriver		#40	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7 11/23/2009 01:39	maybe I just don't know much, but based on these horror stories mentioned, i'm not sure how a guy can be considered a 'reputable maker' and do business like that, much less 'a friend. and I get that we're not supposed to throw anyone under the bus on this forum, that there are two sides to every story, but my business classes taught me the 'customer is always right' and 'the market is the voice of god' -seeems like stating the facts about business transaction (including names) even if they're not glamourizing is fair discourse in the matter of buying and repairing bamboo rods- most of us visit this site as 'customers' as much as hobbiest. Steering clear of libel, I'm kinda pissed if the anonymous guys you're referring to in this post are still advertising themselves as 'reputable makers or repairman' ....cause their kinda business ethic is total B,S, to string folks along, be late (way late, like years) on a job, or not even complete the project. But never the less, yes, guess its crazy to give anyone money without a formal contract, and a contract which specifies a 'time frame' ....if I gave a guy a couple hundred bucks and five years later I get it back cause 'well, the guy just didn't get around to finishing the project' i'd demand the guy give me interest on my money as well as the payback and i'd tell all my friends to steer clear. And never the less, thank goodness i've never had that problem, all the folks in the bamboo work i've done stuff with have been fantastic.
Interact My Recent Posts

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

So what do you do???