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oldschoolcane		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 130 11/20/2009 16:20	To fully appreciate the older collectible rods, you have to value the connection between the maker and the materials used to create it. In buying a rod, I feel that I have strengthened my connection with the builder in whatever way I can. It's function and value lies in continuing to be useful as a tool for fishing, that's why it was made. We own these rods for awhile, then they become someone else's when we're gone. The only thing really limited is the amount of time we have to use them. Tim No matter how great one's enthusiasm and tools, the hand will ultimately be the deciding factor. It's innately there, or not. It has become that simple a fact. He and I stand together on that truth - it's in your hands, period. ~ Glenn Brackett, foreward "The Lovely Reed"
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Boo.fiberglassflyro...		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 239 11/20/2009 16:44	There's a lot of cane rodder's that comment on the "connection" they have to the builder and/or previous owner. Do you rod builders feel it? I never hear a rod maker comment on the connection to the buyer...except in a monetary way. I've sold plenty of used and new rods....but once the rod is paid for I seem to lose the connection. Is there anyone out there that has bought a rod from me that still feel connected?........... ..........I feel alone.
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WatercolorMan		#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1541 11/20/2009 18:00	Boo you must be hanging around the wrong guys. . . . all the rest of us feel connected. I went to visit a friend a few days ago and check out his rod collection. When he handed me his 8' Hawes and I sure felt something, all of his rods as far as I know were built over 50 years ago so the builders are no longer with us but I sure felt a connection to the past and the ART of rod building.
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pcg		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3575 11/20/2009 18:26 Admin	And as a small bite of reality, when we discuss wraps being redone & the effect on value, let's remember that the name builder didn't wrap those wraps--his wife did, or his daughter-in-law, or his daughter... Most classic rods were a collective effort--usually a family effort--and the hand of the builder is only on parts of the rod. Interestingly & for what it's worth, today's cane rod is far more the work of a given builder. Who among us can persuade our gorgeous daughter-in-law to wrap rods for $0.35 a rod? One of us is crazy in fishing and forget time. And the other take part only in the party at night. --Yoshikazu Fujioka
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bobbeegee		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3265 11/20/2009 22:42	Boo wrote: bobbeegee wrote: Boo wrote: The rod itself is the tool, like the brush handle is to the painter, the line the paint, and the fly the brush. The water the canvas.....Isn't the art in fishing the rod? The artist the fisher? Interesting thought. Never once thought of myself as an artist. Gotta tell my wife so she can get a good belly laugh. Bob Well, it doesn't mean your a Michaelangelo. It depends on your finesse. You may be on par with a 4 year old. But, an artist nonetheless. No big deal Mr. Boo. Just a tongue in cheek reply. Bob
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BlackHillsBill		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3155 11/20/2009 22:59	pcg wrote: Most classic rods were a collective effort . . . Interestingly & for what it's worth, today's cane rod is far more the work of a given builder. That's a good point, Pat, and one that's too easily forgotten. How much did the rodmaker whose name appears on the rod, or in Granger's case his foreman Bill Phillipson, actually contribute in a hands on way to the rod? Clearly, working without knowledge of the style or even the identity of the parts-makers would limit the "authenticity" a restorer can achieve. But not enough for me to fret about it. I'm confident a gifted restorer, one who respects how a rod casts, its design, taper, components, and cosmetics--the totality of the rod--and who studies these things, can breathe extra life into the rod on which he's working. These, after all, are the main attributes I associate with the artistry of the original maker whose name is on my rod. I had a boyhood friend whose father's identity was unknown, although people were especially generous in supplying him with different possibilities. He consoled himself by noting he had been granted his unique extra fascination and status because he was shaped more than the rest of us by the charm of community effort. I'm willing to take such consolation in the case of the collective effort that went into creating a bamboo rod in my rack. It offers so many additional opportunities for speculation on a winter day. Last Edited By: BlackHillsBill 11/21/2009 12:16. Edited 5 times.
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oneculm		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 707 11/21/2009 00:00	I am not a collector,never will be and never want to be, so I cannot think like a true collector would. I also agree that Pat has pointed out a very important aspect of past rod building. Except for maybe a half dozen so called classic builders most were made by more than one person.A while back I offered what I thought a nice W&M 7 1/2' with three tips on this site. One of the original tips had a small crack at a node that had been repaired.I would doubt if anyone would have noticed it if not mentioned. The third tip was a W&M tip made for that model and had been re wrapped by an expert (not me). The Granger green on the extra tip was just a shade lighter than the so called original. I would guess W&M and maybe Granger for some models pulled sections from a bin that had been made for that model and they became a finished rod. I received many comments that because the extra tip was not original it would add no value to the rod and because of the cracked node the value would be less than with two good original tips.Maybe one of the collectors would answer that if they bought a very desirable rod and it was all original but in terrible condition would they just leave it like that and look at it? The #120 Heddon that Dallas mentioned I doubt had ever been fished, but the varnish was in poor condition and many of the guides needed replacing to make it as it would have come out of the factory. What is the proper approach? Leave it with varnish meltdown or put back as close to original as possible? I do not know. .The good thing is we can all have our own opinions ( I hope).I would also like to comment on the art thing but would hope it could be a separate post in itself and not take away from the original subject. I hate to admit it, but I now have due to a glue screw -up two rods that I own. Am I now a collector? Last Edited By: oneculm 11/21/2009 01:04. Edited 2 times.
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thegubster		#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1756 11/21/2009 00:24	A long time back, when I was a 15 yr. old kid, I remember having this feeling/thought. I was in woodshop, something that I lusted for even back then. I was trying to come up with a design for a project (simple coffee table) that would be unique for me. I remember not wanting it to be like the "typical" coffee tables around and I recall thinking out loud enough for the shop teacher to hear. I said to myself..."Man, there's an art to everything!" I've never forgotten that. It stuck with me. The project turned out very nicely but no different from the norm. Guess I'm no artist but like to think I appreciate it when I see it. That's why some of your pics of your rods just "do it" to me! Jeremy.
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fishbates	collecting	#29	[url]	[-]
Posts: 99 11/21/2009 03:17	As for some rods, paynes, i find great joy in owning a few that Jim him self, vanished, as for fishing insturments i prefer newer rods or restored rods, as some old rods have issues like guides coming off, or vanish melt. But as long as we find Original important, and hopefully not altered (something difficult to prove) they will always command higher prices. Its a fun hobby and to have a little of each gives you an appreciation of the art both old, new and restored rods. Lately I prefer new rods under $2,000 as they are excellent to fish, collect and will only appreciate in value, at least i hope so. and i feel less worried if i fall on the way to the stream or while in the stream, finally note in my rambling, all rods regardless of value (unless one of a kind or vary rare) need to be fished, the builder did not intend for his or her rods to be collected, im sure they are not happy at us (addicts if you are one, i am) for owning so many rods as to be uncertain as what rod to fish next on our next fishing trip. At some point i will have to boil my rods down to a few, but for now enjoy collecting rare rods particularly Jim Payne rods is a fun hobby, and i do prefer original when i can find them. Also i do prefer to collect rods made by one person (new rods that is or old rods that we knew were made only buy one hand) dave Last Edited By: fishbates 11/21/2009 03:21. Edited 1 time.
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gofish60		#30	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2117 11/21/2009 12:55 Registered User	I have always found a "connection" to the previous individuals who have fished the classic rods I own and fish. Where did it get fished? What kind of camp or cabin did they operate from. Fishing a 100+ year old rod just sets my imagination off in many directions. I like Dave, especially prefer rods from a smaller shop, where you can pretty much ascertain who was working on it. Paynes with Jim Payne, Winston with the original guys, Howell or Glenn Brackett, T&T and Maxwell Leonards with Tom Maxwell's distinctive script and lettering, etc. gofish
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nwdlj		#31	[url]	[-]
Posts: 140 11/23/2009 21:28	I have a Heddon Model 14 8 1/2 2f that has a 1" short mid...the entire rod is in pristine shape that I consider original and one of the most beautiful Model 14's that I have seen, gorgeous wraps, perfect varnish (and a Heddon varnish at that) and not a minus about it...why do I know this and consider it in this manner? Because the invoice that I found in the tube showed that it had been sent back to the Heddon shop for repair in 1964...they totally rebuilt the rod, listing all their work, and reset the ferrule as the mid had done the infamous Heddon Self Adjusting mid break that that taper is so renowned for...and I consider it original as it was totally redone by the original makers of the rod, with original thread and with original methods and was their decision to keep the original cane...so why not call it that, i.e an original rod? Its actually kind of unique with the rebuild fully documented and the work impeccably Heddon without question and actually signed by who did it which is totally unique for a Heddon...and the utility of it is total, probably the most fishable of the Heddon's that I own...I wouldn't replace or restore that mid to full length for any reason, and actually view it as worth more than a full up original that would be at best in used condition and this one is off the show room floor looking new...again, this is just because I feel this way about it and what it represents to me, a very unique look into one of the production shops that interest me the most and one that I feel is very beautiful and at the same time, very usable which to me represents true value...some of these posts brought this to mind so I thought I would add it in, its not particularly pointed at any other post, so please no offense intended, just my experience with this rod...dj
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