Why fly shops go under

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recane1	Why fly shops go under		Lead	[-]
Posts: 279 11/21/2009 16:14	Tags : None So, about a week ago I took 2 spools down to the fly shop for some backing and some new line. The fly shop that I like to use is about 6 miles from work and is one of 3 shops that is owned by a friend of mine. When I went in, I was not familiar with the gentleman that was working at the time. We spoke for a few minutes and I told him that I was in need of 2 new lines. He showed me their selection and I decided that they did not have exactly what I was looking for. He said that he would be happy to transfer from another store or special order it if necessary. I said that would be fine. He called the other stores and neither had what I wanted. ( Wolff TT 4 F ) He made a note to special order it for me, taking my name and number. Yesterday evening I got a call from the fly shop explaining that my line had arrived. He told me to be sure and bring my spools so that he could wind them for me. Today (Saturday ) I went down to the shop to pick up my new line with spools in tow. When I arrived there, I noticed that the gentleman that I had been dealing with was not their. In his place was a young man and a young lady. I told them who I was and why I was their. The young lady produced 2 boxes of line from under the counter with my name and number attached. I then handed over the spools so that they could be wound. The young man said that they were just to busy being that it was Saturday afternoon to wind my spools and that I could leave the spools their and pick them up on Monday afternoon. That's where the problem started. Sure, they were busy, but I have been waiting for a week now and I was the only one in the store who was spending any money, $141.13 including tax. Coupled by the fact that there were two people working at the time, I was getting pissed off. Neither of the 2 employees were really doing anything but standing at the counter talking. Now I start thinking why I bought the line from this shop to begin with. If I had known that I would need to wait a week and then wind them myself with my own backing by hand, I could have just ordered the line on the Internet and saved mucho coin. This, my friends, is one reason why fly shops go under. My dilemma now is, should I talk to my friend (the shop owner) about his employees service or just say nothing and shop at another fly shop or just make my purchases on line? What is the proper coarse of action here? Aaron
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spruce grouse		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1474 11/21/2009 17:15	Aaron. Tell your friend. You'd be doing him a favor. With employees like that I bet there are other shoppers who decided to go elsewhere. Also tell him about the guy who you got good service from .
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recane1		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 280 11/21/2009 17:18	I was so mad that I didn't even think of telling him about the good part. Aaron
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Berry Point		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 510 11/21/2009 17:20	Aaron, he's your friend. Tell him! He needs to know what's going on there in his absence. Oops, just saw that Spruce posted too. He's right--your friend should also know the difference between the guy who served you first and the Gen whatever's that blew you off.
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MontyMontana	Step in, have a seat and let's talk.	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 543 11/21/2009 17:27	Aaron, Our country has many problems and the list of contributing factors is long, too long for this forum but you have a personal stake (friendship) involved in this particular incident. I believe we (senior age group) have allowed many of our problems to grow unnecessarily...we have become enablers...by not do nothing at a time when we should have, a small problem has grown way out of proportion. Yes, (I) feel you should contact the owner (your friend) and tell him of this incident...these ungrateful little brats need a come to Jesus meeting, with age and common sense. Just think of the small inconvenience you will have by not doing something...if this problem persist and grows the shop will lose customers and will close and then you will have to travel farther for your needs. The crux of this problem lies in lack of respect by some, not all, of the folks working in all retail outlets today. Hope this helps Monty Montana Your Signature ... I fish via our criminal justice system..."Catch and release"
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mer		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3306 11/21/2009 17:30	First, take a couple of deep breaths. As frustrating as it is, it's not the end of the world. I agree with Mr Grouse on this; you have an obligation to say something to the owner, about the 2 employees there when you picked the line up, but also the lengths that the other one went to. It's not just fly shops, it's lots of places that "sell things". Even my wife in the garden center has had issues with some of the kids that were drawing a paycheck. At my local fly shop (about 5.5 miles away, pass it to and from work each day), there's only one or two people that actually do the rigging service (very nice spliced loops and needle knotting of a butt section) so if Dan's not there, well, no biggie. Keep in mind that the two that were behind the counter won't learn unless someone tells them. Just my opinions, as stated previously if one disagrees or thinks I'm FOS, then just ignore anything I have to say...
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Hap		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 103 11/21/2009 17:40	Aaron, I agree with spruce grouse and Berry Point, you need to speak to your friend. I managed a retail operation for 6 or 7 years. What those employees need to know is that customers [you, me, etc] pay there salaries. Hap.
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oldtrout		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 143 11/21/2009 19:44	I beg you to tell your friend, he cannot correct what he does not know. I try to purchase from the local shops over the e-stores whenever possible. I know I'm often paying a little more, but I like to think that this "little more" is helping keep the shop's doors open. I have a sinking feeling that "regular" fly shops will continue going out of business and very soon it will be at an exponentially alarming rate. IMO - Only those shops located in one of those very special places or those which have a very strong internet side to their business are likely to survive. Oh well, we of an elder ilk can always remember the good old days...
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DrLogik		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1717 11/21/2009 19:50	One sure fire way to go out of business is to provide bad customer service. If it's a close friend, you should tell the friend exactly what happened and why it made you mad. If he/she cares about their livelyhood, they'll fix it pretty quickly. I have to tell you though, I have had great experiences in fly shops and really pizz poor ones to. What keeps me going back to the same shops, like you, is customer service and relationships. I had an interesting experience a few years ago with a new grill store that opened up in town. Mind you these guys didn't sell regular grills. They sold really high-end stuff. As I recall, the cheapest one they had was close to $1,000. So I go in there to check it out. I did need a part for my ailing Chargriller and thought maybe they'd have a part that would work. I entered the store and started looking around. One of the gents came up to me and asked, "What grill do you own?". I thought that a bit odd. Why didn't he just ask, "can I help you"? I told him I had a gas grill I bought at Sam's years ago and it was the best grill I had ever had because it could reach 750 degrees (that's pretty darn hot guys) and cooked a really mean steak. He kind of gave me a funny look and said, "we don't sell those here". I replied, "oh, that's ok, I just need an igniter for my grill. Might you have one that would work?" To which he replied, "I suggest you go to Sam's or Home Depot to look for one". I looked over at their parts wall and saw some replacement igniters in blister packs. One of them looked pretty close to mine and it was a Universal igniter to (ie it would probably work). As I picked it off the wall, he mozies over to me and says, "can I help you with someting else?" I replied in a straight face, "No, I think you've done enough already" and left the store. Six months later they had their Going Out of Business Sale. DrLogik.com Last Edited By: DrLogik 11/21/2009 20:13. Edited 4 times.
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recane1		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 281 11/21/2009 21:59	Well thanks guys, I think I will drive down there monday afternoon and have a chat with my friend about his employees. I hope that we are still friends after it's all over. This is really a pretty nice shop and I have never had any problems in the past. Aaron
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peacefisher		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 58 11/22/2009 07:30	It's really a sign of the culture we are living in. "Hey, I'm an American, you owe me a job". I find this problem in all business's . I go to the Post Office to mail a package and it seems the Postal employee behind the counter is looking for a way NOT to mail the package. One time I went into the PO at 4:20PM (they close at 4:30)and talked to the Postmaster about getting a Mail Fraud Form, he acted like he had no idea what form I needed and was very short with his answers. I went home and found the form I needed on the internet. I went back to the PO the next day and asked the Postmaster if he could order that form for me. He said no need to do that as he has the form in the file. I asked him why he didn't give it to me the day before and he said because I came in 10 minutes before closing and was afraid he would have to work a couple extra minutes. Last Edited By: peacefisher 11/22/2009 07:34. Edited 2 times.
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tiptop		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 636 11/22/2009 09:58	If it were me, I would have politely told the employee that I needed the spools loaded and that I'd be back in a couple hours to either pick them up or get a refund.
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aquabonito		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1105 11/22/2009 12:50 Angry Andy	A different prospective: I frequent a shop where the owner who on occasion needs to be away, has a person of his *TRUST* who knows retail in general, fill in for him. I know for a fact he does not know how to spool backing, attach a fly line, and affix some sort of leader attachment. But he does know how to *KEEP A CUSTOMER.* I obviously don't know the circumstances involved in this post but I feel for the owner trying to eke out a living in the fly shop business. Ask any owner if he depends solely on selling fly fishing equipment to sustain his business. I frequent another shop, an Orvis Branch store that has at least six employees. All can sell you something but only one can perform the myriad of services a customer may want. And he's off on Tuesdays. "You can't make new old friends" Andy
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Serendipity		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1356 11/22/2009 23:51	I think Andy is on the right track. None of these retail shops can afford to pay for the kind of expertise and service that we would like to see. When they do have it, it is because they just happened to hire someone who actually knows something. The man who waited on you the first time is very likely an experienced fly fisher. The two young people who waited on you when you went back are not, and they probably felt it was better to say they were too busy than to admit they didn't know the first thing about putting backing and line on a reel. And, if they didn't look busy, it may have been because they didn't know enough to actually be busy. So, perhaps we should consider the possibility that the owner of the shop, of any shop, has an obligation to train his staff if he wants to provide high quality customer service. It can't always be done, but let's not blame the young folks who are simply looking for a job. I doubt that they would refuse training if it were offered. richard
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gmflyfish	Why Fly Shops go under	#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1254 11/23/2009 08:50	Most of us have a story similar to yours. I tend to vote with my feet. I now have a shop welcoming me into the store and not trying to sell me a drift or pontoon boat. If I need to special order something they keep me informed of progress and offer suggestions of substitutes. If you personally know the owner by all means talk to them. About help - the Greater Yellowstone Fly Fishing Shop in Four corners has no shortness of help who know the business - there are a couple of retirees who work a couple of days a week and are there in the summer when the business is brisk... It can be done... Gregg
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recane1		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 282 11/23/2009 13:32	Richard has hit the nail on the head. It's all about training the employees. Really, how hard is it to put some backing and line on a reel? I went home and did it my self and I have never worked in a fly shop nor have I had any one train me on the proper way to it. Hell, the directions are right there on the little spool of backing. It ain't that hard and it cant be that hard to teach an employee to do it, after all they are getting paid to work in a fly shop. I talked to the owner this morning. He was very apologetic and glad to know what goes on in his store when he is gone. I will keep shopping there and supporting the local business. We are still friends. He said that he would be training his employees more. All is well that ends well. Aaron
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mmorris236		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 358 11/24/2009 10:11	Customer service is a dying art, maybe more so because it is simply common sense and manners, something mom and dad should have taught when junior was still wearing short pants. While ignorance is not to be tolerated, an inexperienced staffer can always be polite, and if no one more skilled is available, come to some arrangement simply by being hionest. Sir, I am not sure how to spool the reel, If you are on your way to the stream I can do the best I can and if you are not satisfied, at least you can get your afternoon in and we would be happy to fix it when someone else is here. Such a silly statement allows you to decide, explains the problem and offers resolution. Next step is up to the employee, learn how to use the dang spooler!!! I am amzed at the callousness of many people. My stamp collecting club puts on an annual show. About 40 stamp dealers show up and set up tables and booths, most expect to do several thousand dollars of business in the two day event. I work with one very old school dealer who ran several stores before he "retired". He is one of the most successful dealers on the circuit. I needded to retrieve something from the van about an hour before the show opened so I headed out to the far parking lot to get it. As I walked out I noticed that the parking lot closest to the door was completely full, not a single place left, not even the handicapped spots. Now Stamp Collectors are generally an older lot, and many have trouble walking, if not actually handicapped. All of the dealers had taken the parking that would make their customers life easier, and in some cases make their attendance possible. I was incensed. As my freind always said, "Don't take your customers parking". I spoke with the show chairman and he sorta shrugged his shoulders and said it was too late to say anything. I will certainly bring this up next year, and send it out with the table registrations in big bold black letters. NO DEALER PARKING IN THE NEAR LOT!!!. It is amazing to me that one would even have to think of this, after all the dealers are shooting themselves in the foot making it more difficult for their clientelle to come through the door, and the dealers themselves are not GenXers, they are of an age where they should know better!
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wefishcane		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 787 11/24/2009 12:00	One fall day years ago I was fishing the Madison below the Reynolds Pass bridge. It started to snow and my guides were freezing up so I decided to drive into West Yellowstone, visit the fly shops and warm up in the process. I went in to three or four shops and found them empty of customers. The fellas behind the counters said a cursory hello and then went back to whatever they were doing. My last stop was to Blue Ribbon Flies. As I walked in Craig Mathews looked up from his tying desk and said, " Hi Jim! Come in and get warm. How are your boys?" The shop must have had close to a dozen fishermen roaming around the place, talking and enjoying themselves. Now tell me who in that town will have a long term successful operation. Jim
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Tim Anderson		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 48 11/24/2009 15:55	We had an experience very similar to Jim's a number of years ago. We were fishing on the Madison in the 3-Dollar Bridge area and I was very successful with a small mayfly imitation until the hook broke. It was the only such fly in my fly box and I had no idea where it came from. The next day, we walked from fly shop to fly shop in West Yellowstone showing the fly and asking for something as similar as possible. No shop had any such fly and we commonly heard that they had sold out of anything that small (it was September). Well, no shop until we came to Blue Ribbon Flies. Craig Mathews took one look at the fly and said, "We do not have precisely that fly, but let me show you what we use to imitate the natural your fly was imitating." He walked over to a well-stocked bin and pulled out a size 20 Baetis Sparkle Dun. Ever since, we have used that fly very successfully on the Madison. That was service and with Craig's big smile. Our local fly shop in California also gives great service, but, each year in West Yellowstone, we have only gone to Blue Ribbon Flies since then. The service has remained outstanding. Most fly shops sell very similar merchandise. Key to customer loyalty (and commercial success) is service. Tim
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bobbeegee		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3272 11/24/2009 19:55	Tim Anderson wrote: That was service and with Craig's big smile. Our local fly shop in California also gives great service, but, each year in West Yellowstone, we have only gone to Blue Ribbon Flies since then. The service has remained outstanding. Most fly shops sell very similar merchandise. Key to customer loyalty (and commercial success) is service. Tim Well said and most true Tim. I don't know if any fly shop owners frequent this site but I'm sure they're most interested in this thread if they do! Bob p.s. And if any of our members know owners who might be interested in this thread, maybe they can direct them here? Last Edited By: bobbeegee 11/24/2009 19:58. Edited 1 time.
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Short Tip		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1334 11/24/2009 20:21 Moderator	I think Andy and Serendipity nailed it. One of the toughest things in the tackle business is expansion. Imagine being a shop owner and searching for employees who have the same amount of job ownership, expertise, and desire for success that you do, while limiting them to part time hours and low wages. It's very difficult. I'm glad that Aaron took his concerns to the owner. There are many reasons why fly shops go under. It's a very low margin business, made even lower by internet sellers and back-door discounts. Not pushing bigger ticket items or failing to overstate the differences between low and high priced rods are forms of slow economic suicide. Sad facts, but facts nonetheless. "When all the rods and a lot of reels, lines, leader boxes, et cetera, had been sold, the gang paid at the cashier's window for what they'd bought and then made a bee line for the rug room to test their rods. I put mine together, tested it for a moment or so, and then started to show it to men I knew. Not a man was interested in my rod. They all, without a single exception, tried to get me to look at theirs. Extraordinary, how self centered most men are. Have you noticed it? "
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