Questions re a Montague "project rod"

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ThomHardy	Questions re a Montague "project rod"		Lead	[-]
Posts: 39 11/24/2009 20:31	Tags : None Dear restoration gurus, I obtained what's left of a Montague rod at an estate sale, and am wondering if it's a candidate for restoration. I've never done any rod building or restoration work, and would like to try to restore one where the consequence of error is small. In other words, if I screw it up, I've only lost some time, and the world will not have lost a rod of any great value. Some pictures of the Montague are inserted below. Aside from the engraving on the reel seat, there are no other inscriptions, engraving or decals of any kind. The mid section is 36-3/4", which would also be the length of the tip section if it had a tip top. The butt section, which has no ferrule, is 3-7/8" shorter than the mid. The tip section has a slight set, while the other two sections are straight. The cork has ridging and a number of pits. The tip section is missing all of its guides and the tip top, the mid section is missing some guides, and the butt section is missing the stripping guide. My questions are these: 1. Is the butt section broken at the end, or is it simply missing the ferrule? (see the fourth picture) 2. If the butt is broken, does it make sense to try to restore it in a shortened length? 3. Is this rod a candidate for restoration? Does the short butt section, or any other aspect of the rod, mean that it would not be possible or worthwhile for me to make the attempt to bring it back? Thanks to anyone willing and able to give any advice. Tom
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Lewis B		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 101 11/24/2009 22:04	It looks good to me. I dont believe the butt section is broken, just missing the ferrule. I think it would be a fine project. Do some research and find the parts you want,I`m sure there are lots of people on this site that can help you out. Good luck and keep us updated. Lewis
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john channer		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 858 11/24/2009 23:04	Look at the end of the cane, if it's been turned round with a step in it and the end looks like it was cut clean it is most likely just the missing ferrule making it short, if the end is still hexagonal shaped and has a ragged end on it then it's been broken. john
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aparramoure		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1780 11/25/2009 03:42	That butt section is broken. If I were you, I would go ahead and work on the rod,, Afterall, this is really what you want to start with. So what if the butt section is a little short,, it's not like it has a lot of action in it.. it is more like a ball bat. I would call it a "rebuild" rather than a "restoration". Will be good practice for you. You may want to replace all the ferrules with nickel plated brass ferrules that you can find at Jann's Netcraft. They are cheap and they work well. If you go with new ferrule, don't forget to get the pins out. Also, you could shorten up the other pieces a tad so that when done,, alll sections are the same length,,in case that fact is an issue for you. Have fun. http://www.bamboorestorations.org
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ThomHardy		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 40 11/25/2009 06:54	Thanks very much. This is all very helpful. Can anyone recommend a good reference book for this kind of work? As a beginner, I'll need something that discusses the tools and materials required, and that gives step-by-step instructions. Happy Thanksgiving!
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rlnunleycom	Go For It!!!	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 584 11/25/2009 09:07	I think this rod would be a great opportunity for you to run the full gambit on restoring. You're going to have to either make or come up with a good winding check, the ferrules are going to have to be replaced, at least the butt female. You definitely have issues with varnish and finding the correct guides. Go the "whole show" on this rod. Restore with the same care and diligence you would if it were a $3000 Payne. If you really want to get into it, find some plans online to make your own scarfing black and scarf that butt section back to full length. Varnish it like your life depended on 'smooth'. Demand that utmost of yourself on wraps, no gaps, all exactly the same length for each size guide, etc. Put that kind of work into your first restoration and you'll learn more about restorations than you can imagine. Also, don't be hesitant to get on here and ask questions. Some of the best restorationist in the the bamboo world watch this forum and answer questions. Take advantage of their expertise and knowledge. And most important... HAVE FUN WITH IT! Check your Private Messages. Bob RL "Bob" Nunley, Rodmaker Ozark Rodmaking School Last Edited By: rlnunleycom 11/25/2009 09:16. Edited 1 time.
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TheMontyMan	Montague Project Rod...	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 300 11/25/2009 16:13	Tom, I'm heading out of town for the holidays within the hour, otherwise I would spend more time on this right now. I'll take a more detailed look early next week. Here are my first thoughts. This rod was in the low end of the Montague line when it was new. No matter what you do to it, you'll be improving it, but it will never perform like a Red Wing or a Payne. It could, however, turn out to be a nice, very fishable rod, and it will be as beautiful as you want to make it. I may be able to determine the model, or the series of models, but it dates from the1920's so the model will probably just be a number, that nobody really recognizes. I'm with Bob Nunley on his suggestions, and think that this would make a great rod for practice on so many levels. I'd put a set of nice ferrules on it and double the number of snake guides (approximately), and follow Bob's suggestions, and get more help from folks here on the Forum. It appears to have browntone, treated cane, so that will make for some nice color. I can give you some suggestions on how to jazz it up a bit, while staying somewhat original looking. When I return from the holidays, I'll take another look. . . . Rex TheMontyMan
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ThomHardy		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 41 11/26/2009 07:57	Bob and Rex, Thanks to you both. Your comments and suggestions are both informative and inspiring. I've been in touch now with Michael and his book will be on the way shortly. So I'll soon be out of excuses not to get started. Happy Thanksgiving to all. Tom
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lewis2dl		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 95 11/26/2009 11:42	Tom, As a project rod, I would be tempted to do what I did to a Montague Fishkill. Granted, the rod was a little higher quality, but it was also short a bit on the tip. I cut a bit off the butt and shortened the mid (you can take small amounts off one or both ends) and refit the ferrules on the rod. I added a new cork grip and an uplocking reel seat. I only wrapped the rod in the style of the Fishkill, but didn't try to duplicate the wrapping pattern. I added more guides and increased the sizes. The rod is now 8.75' in length and I recently steelhead fished it with a 6wt line and it cast really nice. I also did the same process with a Montague Amateur (was correct length) which is a low grade Montague. It is now a short bass rod, and while not the best caster in the world, it does fish nicely and throws the line with bass bugs. You can see the Amateur if you go to this topic: http://clarksclassicflyrodforum.yuku.com/topic/20925 . Here is a photo of the Fishkill. It is good experience to use a rod like yours and see what you can do with it to improve it. You certainly can keep the original reel seat if you wish. You will just have to remove everything above it if you opt to add a new cork grip. Dean L. Last Edited By: lewis2dl 11/26/2009 19:09. Edited 3 times.
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ThomHardy		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 42 11/26/2009 17:41	Thanks Dean. Both of them are beauties. I hope I can do half as well.
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TheMontyMan	Montague model...	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 302 12/02/2009 02:05	Tom, It appears that part of the signature wraps are gone. I took a quick look through my vintage ads and catalogs to see if I could find a match. I found a few rods with similar hardware and windings, but none stood out as a definite match. I wish I could be of more help on this one. . . . Rex TheMontyMan
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ThomHardy		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 43 12/02/2009 14:22	Hi Rex, Thanks for looking. The good news, I guess, is that I'm now free to try to reproduce whatever combination of wraps and other details that most suit my fancy, rather than trying to reproduce a specific Montague model. Should be fun. I've ordered Michael Sinclair's book, and I expect to have lots more questions once I get started. Best regards. Tom
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ThomHardy	Update and ferrule pin questions	#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 01/18/2010 12:22	I am slowly but unsurely proceeding with the Montague re-building project first described in this thread. I've collected tools and materials, "logged" all the rod information as per Michael Sinclair's instructions, and removed the reel seat, guides and winding check from the rod. I'll be ready to strip the old varnish once I've removed the old ferrules. I'm having a heck of a time punching the pins through the ferrules. I broke two steel pins in my brass Pin Punch while punching the pin through the reel seat (ultimately successfully), so maybe I'm being too cautious in tapping the pins on the ferrules with the rubber mallet? Despite many, many taps, the pins don't seem to be going anywhere. Golden Witch sells an Automatic Center Punch that's supposed to help start a pin -- do I need one of those, or are there other tricks of the trade that you can suggest? Thanks in advance. Tom
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narcodog		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 362 01/18/2010 12:42	Tom, an automatic center punch is used for making a dimple in the material not driving. You can get driving punches from HD etc. The set I have used is Snap On. Oh I am as much of an amateur as you.
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ThomHardy		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 45 01/18/2010 15:16	Thanks Narcodog. I didn't realize that punches that small were generally available in the Big Box stores. Even with a more substantial punch, though, I think I might still have a problem keeping the punch centered over the pin.
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Ben Kann	About pinned ferrules	#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 251 01/19/2010 09:30	One more note from another amateur. A lot of the lower priced rods have pins that don't go all the way through the ferrule (they're blind pinned). Check the opposite side of the ferrule carefully and if that's the case with your rod you should only drive the pin far enough to clear the ferrule metal.
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ThomHardy		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 47 01/19/2010 12:19	Right, Ben. And thanks. These pins appear not to go all the way through, so as you say, I don't have to move them very far. I saw on another thread that resting the rod section in a V notch cut into a block of wood might make the process of driving the pin easier. Have you tried that? Unless someone comes up with other ideas, that's my next step. I'm also going to the Somerset, NJ show on Saturday, and hope to find some brains to pick there. Best regards. Tom
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waltryan1		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 83 01/19/2010 15:58	I started playing with bamboo rods over 15 years ago. I bought "handyman specials" and brought them to the point where I could cast with them. On one old Montague I broke the rod right at a ferrule. To replace a ferrule on a broken section I tried to file the bamboo down to round. I found that keeping the ferrule station round and centered was almost impossible. I have Stuart Kirkfield's book, The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod but I saw this today on The Book Mailer, HOW TO REFINISH BAMBOO RODS STEP BY STEP - Hebert, Artie (DVD).
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Questions re a Montague "project rod"

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