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When I fished Sage graphite fly rods, the length of the rod and distance of my cast dictated whether I used a double taper, or weight forward fly line. Short
rods - 8 feet and under - short or roll casts, double taper lines. Long rods - 8 feet or more, plus casts of 35 feet or longer, weight forward. Then I got
back into cane and several builders plus a dealer told me more than once to fish double taper lines on bamboo. Thus since my bamboo rebirth I've lined up
all my rods with double tapers, and quite satisfied with the results.
Now some buddies and I are engaging in a "friendly exchange" of the merits of double taper versus weight forward lines on bamboo. Any thoughts on
this subject, or doesn't it matter?
It depends on different factors.
If you have significant wind and need to cast more than 40', then a WF is helpful. If you are fishing streamers, then a WF is very helpful, regardless of
distance. If you are casting over 50' and are not an accomplished caster, then WF is very helpful. In all of these situations, the fact that the heavier
portion of the line will hit the water, is not necessarily a factor, that is the risk of frightening the fish is minimal or none.
If you are fishing less than 50' then not disturbing the water is a factor and a DT gives you an advantage of a WF. If you have a mediium to slow casting
stroke, then a DT is more suitable. If you are doing U cast up stream or a side-arm cast under over-hanging foilage or you like to fish soft-hackle flies ala
Sly Nemes - quarter down stream and let them swing in the current, or do a birds-nest-pile-cast up stream in slow/medium current, then a DT may be best.
So, think about about which of these conditions/factors make-up the majority of your fishing and let that determine your choice.
Myself, I mainly fish medium size streams, using size # 12 or smaller dry flies, emergers, nymphs, and soft-hackles. I have medium-slow casting stroke and use
4-5 wt lines. My casting distance is seldom over 50' and stiff breezes are not the norm. Finally I will not fish streamers or any flies over #12. So, the
DT lines fit me best.
I hope this at leaast helps you think about the issue you've raised.
Lovely streams, deep skies, good friends, and meaningful conversation,
I have reels spooled up with both DT's and WF's, using both over the years. I don't remember making a decision to stop using DT's and
use pretty much only the WF's, but somehow that has happened in the last couple of years and I don't feel like I am missing the DT's. Rick
I own a couple spey lines but everyting else is DT. With a WF I always seem to be casting just at the back of the head where it tapers back. This gives a
hinge so you end up having to shoot line at that distance or further. The same thing can happen casting a DT but its A LOT rarer and normally at those
distances I'm shooting line anyway. Most of my lines are silk and DT has the added benefit of being able to reverse at lunch and not have to carry a
second spool all the time.
I have reels rigged with Wulff Triangle Taper, Long Belly, Sharkskin and Cortland Peach Line (DT). I don't buy into the argument that one is better for
cane and the other is better for graphite. There are a lot of factors which enter into it.
I have reels rigged with Wulff Triangle Taper, Long Belly, Sharkskin and Cortland Peach Line (DT). I don't buy into the argument that one is better for
cane and the other is better for graphite. There are a lot of factors which enter into it.
Please elaborate upon your statement Mr. PYochim.
Bob
Last Edited By: bobbeegee 12/05/2009 20:51.
Edited 1 time.
I'm not sure that it matters, but I've never used a WF in sizes 6 and under for any length of time, irrespective of whether the rod was wood or
plastic. OTOH, I've never felt the "need" for anything other than a DT. Add the fact that I'm cheap, and yes, I do use both ends of the
DTs, and the answer to your question, Ed, is easy. :-)
I have just made the transition from graphite to bamboo {almost a year ago}. I have three dt silk lines now and love them. I have one dt Cortland peach 5wt
line. Testing the 8013 I just made ,I really got into testing a bunch of lines. Four rods and eight lines. I like the silk the best for fishing. It lands on
the water like a ghost. I like the mending and roll casting of the dt line. For just casting I like the wf lines. At a lake where I would just want to cast far
I would pick the wf. Everywhere else I think I prefer the dt. The peach line is nice but is nowhere as slick as the new Rio lines. A good buffing with Glide
made a big difference in slickness.
I have reels rigged with Wulff Triangle Taper, Long Belly, Sharkskin and Cortland Peach Line (DT). I don't buy into the argument that one is better for
cane and the other is better for graphite. There are a lot of factors which enter into it.
Please elaborate upon your statement Mr. PYochim.
Bob
Mr. Bob,
Those are the lines that work for me on the waters I fish. I came by these through trial and error.
I have reels rigged with Wulff Triangle Taper, Long Belly, Sharkskin and Cortland Peach Line (DT). I don't buy into the argument that one is better
for cane and the other is better for graphite. There are a lot of factors which enter into it.
Please elaborate upon your statement Mr. PYochim.
Bob
Mr. Bob,
Those are the lines that work for me on the waters I fish. I came by these through trial and error.
I feel pretty much the same -- I fish a lot of different sizes and weights of bamboo rods. I have fished most of them enough to have been able to test various
brands and tapers of line, and since the rod I choose is often affected by the kind of fishing I am doing (dries, nymphs, streamers, floating or sink-tip line,
the flow and color of the water, wind conditions), I use the line most suitable to the rod and the fishing conditions.
For the way I like to fish the DT works the best for me and as mentioned you get two for one. The line I like the best is a Hook & Hackle so that adds up
to not much more than 15.00 for a line.
Last Edited By: oneculm 12/05/2009 23:04.
Edited 1 time.
TY SecondHandWolf for a nice summary---I found it informative.
I generally use DTs on 3, 4, 5 wts and WFs on 6 wt and up---BUT with bamboo I have found that certain lines work on certain rods so I usually fool around to
match each rod. So, even my rule of thumb is broken---I use a WF Rio on my 3 wt Gorman rod.
Eric Peper wrote:
Add the fact that I'm cheap, and yes, I do use both ends of the DTs, and the answer to your question, Ed, is easy. :-)
EP
Eric... I'm cheap also.... so when I used DT's on graphite rods for short casts, I would cut the DT in half using only one half on the
reel at a time, attached to backing - keeping the other half fresh in the box at home. Now, since I don't use WF's on cane, I don't cut my
DT's in half anymore as I got tired of casting backing on long casts.
I have reels rigged with Wulff Triangle Taper, Long Belly, Sharkskin and Cortland Peach Line (DT). I don't buy into the argument that one is better
for cane and the other is better for graphite. There are a lot of factors which enter into it.
Please elaborate upon your statement Mr. PYochim.
Bob
Mr. Bob,
Those are the lines that work for me on the waters I fish. I came by these through trial and error.
Just curious as to all of those factors? What difference do the waters make?
I have reels rigged with Wulff Triangle Taper, Long Belly, Sharkskin and Cortland Peach Line (DT). I don't buy into the argument that one is better for
cane and the other is better for graphite. There are a lot of factors which enter into it.
I totally agree with you Paul. I fish bamboo, fiberglass, and graphite rods. A good fly line is good on all three as long as the fishing application is the
same. Of course you have to exclude fast action graphite rods that need overweight fly lines from the comparison. The lines you mention are some of the best
for all three, along with the Rio Classic. The only thing is that for stillwater fishing, especially in windy conditions a WF line can be beneficial.
Last Edited By: Arctic Grayling 12/06/2009 04:25.
Edited 1 time.
I have reels rigged with Wulff Triangle Taper, Long Belly, Sharkskin and Cortland Peach Line (DT). I don't buy into the argument that one is better
for cane and the other is better for graphite. There are a lot of factors which enter into it.
Please elaborate upon your statement Mr. PYochim.
Bob
Mr. Bob,
Those are the lines that work for me on the waters I fish. I came by these through trial and error.
I feel pretty much the same -- I fish a lot of different sizes and weights of bamboo rods. I have fished most of them enough to have been able to test
various brands and tapers of line, and since the rod I choose is often affected by the kind of fishing I am doing (dries, nymphs, streamers, floating or
sink-tip line, the flow and color of the water, wind conditions), I use the line most suitable to the rod and the fishing conditions.
Teter-
Thank you for noticing that the fly lines that Paul references as his favorites are all floating fly lines. Those are the lines that I too use for floating
fly line applications. However, as a disciple of the Kelly Galloup school of streamer fishing,
I do use large, unweighted streamers on a sinking line for my streamer fishing. I haven't seen too many sculpins or leeches in Alaskan waters floating on
the surface. And those unweight streamers have so much more action in the water! And I sure don't think that weighted streamers are pleasant to cast!
Not to mention that I look really silly fishing with a hard hat and my bamboo rod covered in bubble wrap. A Kelly Galloup streamer line in the Jim Teeny
Professional series will fish just as well on a Granger taper bamboo rod as it will on a Winston boron rod or a Sage Z-Axis. I can't even imagine what a
current bamboo rod made by Chris Carlin or a similar rodmaker could do with a current streamer taper.
Teter- I do admire your rod collection and I identify with your fly fishing philosophy. I always enjoy reading your forum posts.Thank you for those!
Eric Peper wrote:
I'm not sure that it matters, but I've never used a WF in sizes 6 and under for any length of time, irrespective of whether the rod was wood or
plastic. OTOH, I've never felt the "need" for anything other than a DT. Add the fact that I'm cheap, and yes, I do use both ends of the
DTs, and the answer to your question, Ed, is easy. :-)
EP
Eric-
I don't know you. However, I have fished with Wayne in the Smokys and he does know you and totally respects you. And since I totally respect Wayne and he
did relate some fishing experiences with you while there, please read my comments knowing that I provide them with total respect for you. What you say
probably applies on small streams, but when you get on big streams or you fish on stillwaters when you fish at long distances especially in windy conditions I
think a WF line can be beneficial on both wood or plastic rods. I have many fly lines on many reels or spools, so I have a tough decision when I have to
choose a fly line to fish every time I gear up. However, I do see a trend of my favorites and I do tend to fish those more than others.
If there is a fly line you want to try, let me know. If I have it I will gladly ship it to you along with the reel where it resides. After all, Sir Wayne is
like the Godfather of the Winston Forum. I can't say that it would be pleasant to wake up with a dead moose in my bed, so I will most definitely try to
please the Godfather! So Mr. Peper, your wish is my demand. Rumor has it that Sir Wayne is not only a Winston Godfather, but also has a rather nice collection
of grass rods. Only more reason to treat the man with total respect. Respect is something that is often lacking in the current world.
And to all, there are many out there in this forum that deserve a lot of respect. Every sentence that you write provides knowledge to someone on this forum.
The bamboo tradition lives on through your posts. If not for people like you bamboo would die. I personaly thank you for all that you taught me about bamboo
rods and for keeping bamboo alive so I could experience a rod that is alive. Believe me, I appreciate it every time I fish a bamboo rod. Thank You!
However, as a disciple of the Kelly Galloup school of streamer fishing, ...
So am I --- a big believer in Kelly Galloup. His book with Bob Linsenman, Modern Streamers for Trophy Trout is probably one of the very
best books on streamer fishing ever written, though the list is short of books on this topic. Just about all of my fishing is done in the Catskills, and most
of it - at least in the fall is done on the Esopus Creek. Once mid-October rolls around through the end of November when trout season closes, I'm tossing
a streamer, and one of my favorites is the Madonna, page 138 of the book. Using a fluorescent yellow rabbit strip late autumn seems to drive brown trout
running up out of the Ashokan Reservoir nuts. Water conditions are such though, that I only use/need a Cortland 444 DT floating line either 6 weight, or 5,
depending upon the rod I am using.
I don't know you. However, I have fished with Wayne in the Smokys and he does know you and totally respects you. And since I totally respect Wayne and he
did relate some fishing experiences with you while there, please read my comments knowing that I provide them with total respect for you. What you say
probably applies on small streams, but when you get on big streams or you fish on stillwaters when you fish at long distances especially in windy conditions
I think a WF line can be beneficial on both wood or plastic rods. I have many fly lines on many reels or spools, so I have a tough decision when I have to
choose a fly line to fish every time I gear up. However, I do see a trend of my favorites and I do tend to fish those more than others.
If there is a fly line you want to try, let me know. If I have it I will gladly ship it to you along with the reel where it resides. After all, Sir Wayne is
like the Godfather of the Winston Forum. I can't say that it would be pleasant to wake up with a dead moose in my bed, so I will most definitely try to
please the Godfather! So Mr. Peper, your wish is my demand. Rumor has it that Sir Wayne is not only a Winston Godfather, but also has a rather nice
collection of grass rods. Only more reason to treat the man with total respect. Respect is something that is often lacking in the current world.
And to all, there are many out there in this forum that deserve a lot of respect. Every sentence that you write provides knowledge to someone on this forum.
The bamboo tradition lives on through your posts. If not for people like you bamboo would die. I personaly thank you for all that you taught me about bamboo
rods and for keeping bamboo alive so I could experience a rod that is alive. Believe me, I appreciate it every time I fish a bamboo rod. Thank You!
Thanks for kind words via Wayne. He and I have had a lot of fun together. Please say "Hi" for me next time you see or correspond with
him. He was just getting started down the slippery slope of bamboo rod acquisition when we fished last.
Actually, the preponderance of my fishing is on relatively "big" water (Henry's Fork and Madison), but I don't find I have to chuck more than
50 feet very often, and generally it's less than 40. Having been at this game for over 50 years, I've messed with most of the available tapers at one
time or another before settling on my DT obsession. I've also pretty much decided to focus on trout in streams primarily with dry flies or stuff in the
film, which further limits my needs. I have no doubt that a WF can be of considerable value when fishing stillwaters, but I haven't found the situation on
a stream where I can take advantage of it.
Thanks for your remarks and for the offer of a trial line. For the moment, I'm pretty happy with my DTs.
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