Hardy Barton Vs the St George

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Randy Law	Hardy Barton Vs the St George		Lead	[-]
Posts: 250 01/18/2010 01:30	Tags : None I thought it would be interesting to show the different characteristics between two of Hardy's most popular Fly Reels, The Hardy St George and the Hardy Barton Dry Fly. Recently, I have heard a few collectors suggest that the Barton is just a glorified St George and not much different. Looking across the room into my cabinet, both reels appear to be the similar in size and construction, but up close with both Reels in hand, you can clearly see that they are different. Right away your attention is drawn to the differences between brass feet . And then you notice the distinct large oversized nickel silver lineguard of the Barton Dr Barton must have owned a 3 3/8" St George prior to asking Hardy Brothers to build him a Reel ? Another feature that He requested was a oversized ebonite handle, He must have found the St George handle too small for is hand. Check out the size of both handles from this image. I didn't notice at first until I compared both Reels but the Barton is wider as well. Inside the cage, both have the DUP II check mechanism within, The obvious difference is the oversized gear the Barton has. This gear has very small teeth so when you wind in or out, it feels almost watch like. Important and lastly, Barton Weight 7.9 oz St George Weight 6.3 oz Tight Lines, Randy Law hardyguy
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bow river		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2020 01/18/2010 02:21	randy nice pictures , thanks for sharing that with us , and you forgot to say what's the biggest diff in the 2 reels is '' the price '' , i'v had them both in hand and you can feel the diff in weight and the barton just seemed a bit more solid built , Rich collector of vintage fly reels & bamboo rods , buy & sell , guided float trips on canada's # 1 best trout river , clarks bamboo forum members get a special discount if ya fish cane www.bowriveradventures.com
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spencesbridge		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 18 01/18/2010 02:23	Randy, Very cool, thanks for sharing. Gene
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DoctorFly		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 296 01/18/2010 04:13	Here's what the good Doctor had to say: Regards, Doc DoctorFly - Classic English Fishing
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enigma309	Thanks gents	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 974 01/18/2010 07:00 Moderator	An excellent and educational thread! Doc, what is the book? Randy, I went to the cupboard to compare mine and . .there wasn't a Barton! Thanks Brian
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Cadnorods		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 258 01/18/2010 07:32	Brian, You can always saw one foot off one of your St Georges.... Stuart
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DoctorFly		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 297 01/18/2010 08:17	enigma309 wrote: Doc, what is the book? Hi Brian, It's "Running Water" by E. A. Barton, published by Seeley Service & Co in 1943. He wrote a number of books, including "Chalk Streams & Water Meadows" and "An Album of the Chalk Stream" and a keen photographer whose photos appeared in Skues' books amongst others. regards, Doc DoctorFly - Classic English Fishing
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jvg		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 42 01/18/2010 09:05	Thanks for starting the thread, Randy. Very educational! julian
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turtledoc		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2975 01/18/2010 10:16 Mark E. Baker	Nice thread Randy, and thanks for the additional scans Doc Fly Based on how rare and valuable the Barton is, I am certain I'll never own one, but it is still very interesting to learn more about this model. Mark B Something to consider: Be willing to share photos, information and the knowledge you have about your collection with anyone that has an interest in learning...........also share your knowledge to answer questions that others may have about items in their collections.........doing this will make you feel good and benefits this community ..................after all, what good is having knowledge that isn't shared. MEB
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Spey Salar		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 83 01/18/2010 11:50	Very nice. I wonder why the Barton never took off in terms of reels produced/sold? It seems to have several nice features that I would have thought would be appealing?
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Ray Hencken	What is the difference in width ?	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 213 01/18/2010 12:16	What is the difference in width between the Barton and the St. George? It is obvious that the gear for the Barton is larger than the St. George, however, is there a difference in the space between adjacent teeth on the Barton gear as compared to the space between adjacent teeth on the St. George gear?
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silverspey		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 52 01/18/2010 12:19	The thought that went into designing a reel like the barton is absolutely brilliant.I now am a huge fan of the barton reel thanks for sharing randy and doc .
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afgantrout		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 787 01/18/2010 12:31	Thanks, everyone, for this wonderful thread. And wonderful to be able to read the actual words of Dr. Barton. I liked his stating that Hardy's had "inflicted" the reel with his name! # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Petri heil! Kindly take a look at my angling art (and classic ephemera) www.michaelsimonanglingart.com
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Flyman615	Dr. Barton's better ideas	#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3562 01/18/2010 12:38	Great stuff guys! I have a couple of ongoing fantasies...one is finding a Barton from a seller who doesn't know what it is. The other involves Julie Bandaras of FOX News... Regards, Flyman "There are three things in life that people like to stare at: a flowing stream, a crackling fire and a Zamboni clearing the ice."-Charlie Brown
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Randy Law	Barton / St George Continued	#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 251 01/18/2010 13:59	Here are a couple of additional images to show some other features. Rich, You are correct to say the Barton is definitely of heavier in construction , Check out the cages in this image, Its certainly thicker, especially the outer rim. I have also included a second St George to show shallow and built up spool variations. Image of the differences in spool configuration, Dished as apposed to the straight sided and, Ray, I tried to show here the gears on both reels, I have no way of measuring so we will just have to look at the pics ??? Randy Law hardyguy P.S. I am looking for a spare spool for a 3 screw St George Jr, Can anyone help ??? Last Edited By: Randy Law 01/19/2010 12:22. Edited 1 time.
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bow river		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2021 01/18/2010 14:17	randy dame them pictures are so good , it makes me want to go pull the trigger on a barton , about how many were ever made ?? , i really like the write up in that book , nice bit of info , , wouldn't i like to find one of them in a garage sale in a corner , i think the odds of that happening is about the same as flyman615 getting his fantasy with Julie , '' NOT'' i have a spare spool for a st george Jr , i'll trade it to you for that old barton reel , i think a spare spool is even more rarer then your barton Rich collector of vintage fly reels & bamboo rods , buy & sell , guided float trips on canada's # 1 best trout river , clarks bamboo forum members get a special discount if ya fish cane www.bowriveradventures.com
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flysupplies		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1344 01/18/2010 14:17	So we have a reel designed for clumsy people with sensitive ears! Funny how I don't remember the last time I saw a broken St. George cage but saw a broken Barton cage a couple of years ago. Guess there is no protection against the clumsiest. Great pics. Bob
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bow river		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2022 01/18/2010 14:31	randy here is something i'd like to know , on your barton reel , as it's built heavy on the one side , is the foot mounted off to one side more like the old brass face perfects , or is it mounted in the middle like the st georges , kinda hard to tell from the pictures , or is the reel balanced pretty good that they didn't have to , if i remember correctly the one i had in my hands , it seem a little off balance Rich collector of vintage fly reels & bamboo rods , buy & sell , guided float trips on canada's # 1 best trout river , clarks bamboo forum members get a special discount if ya fish cane www.bowriveradventures.com
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Ponsonby Britt	Positioning of the Barton's reel foot, or the "reel saddle".	#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 21 01/18/2010 15:56	Regarding bow river's question about the positioning for the reel foot: I notice the picture in Barton's book shows it mounted squarely down the middle of the spool and spool cage. So, I expect the actual reel to feel off-center (out of balance) in the same degree the Hardy Perfect does. I do not have an actual Barton to refer to, so I look forward to Randy Law's perspective on this. Or, the input for anyone else that can refer to an example of the actual reel. It was fun to learn the term "reel saddle" as an archaic synonym for what we commonly call the foot. Getting to see the reel paired with Dr. Barton's description is a great pleasure. I had previously seen a Barton example with the foot extended on one side and shortened on the other. However, I had not teased out a good reason for that (so I assumed there had been an amateur shortening in order to fit a reel seat). So, now I know it is an intentional design feature and rather like the idea. Last Edited By: Ponsonby Britt 01/18/2010 16:06. Edited 4 times.
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Line Guard		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 22 01/18/2010 16:26	In Homel's "Antique Fly Reels," he states that about 100 Bartons were made between 1934 and 1939. I think I remember reading elsewhere that the exact number was 119.
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pcg		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3745 01/18/2010 17:45 Admin	Within the next six months Rich will own at least 109 of those 119! Randy, kudos on a great thread! One of us is crazy in fishing and forget time. And the other take part only in the party at night. --Yoshikazu Fujioka
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