This forum began as Clark's Classic Bamboo Rod Forum, founded by Clark Davis for all who share a passion for classic rods. The forum is now owned by Whitefish Press aka Dr. Todd Larson - banjo.
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A question was posted under a different thread about a rod as to why the two major fly fishing museum’s do not appear to actively participate in buying “rare” rods.
My purely personal opinion is that, in part, it is related to budgets. To some extent the revenue side of such budgets is controlled by membership receipts.
I thought I would post a poll, completely anonymous, to see among the men and women who visit here how many contribute by membership to these two museums. I assume the original question referred to the Catskill Fly Fishing Center and Museum and to the American Museum of Fly Fishing.
So, if you care to, simply indicate if you belong to either, both or none. I really am not looking for explanations or trying to provoke heated debate about these museums or museums in general. Just an anonymous survey.
Good poll, and I think you nailed the answer to Pat's earlier question. There's no money.
"When all the rods and a lot of reels, lines, leader boxes, et cetera, had been sold, the gang paid at the cashier's
window for what they'd bought and then made a bee line for the rug room to test their rods. I put mine together, tested it for a moment or so, and then
started to show it to men I knew. Not a man was interested in my rod. They all, without a single exception, tried to get me to look at theirs. Extraordinary,
how self centered most men are. Have you noticed it? "
I have more of a "connection" with the Catskill museum because I've been there many times and know the folks there.
I think that's a problem that hinders all museums regardless of what they display, art museums, history museums, aviation museums, etc. Funding for purchases is always at issue. That is why they rely on donations for the items they display.
I can tell you first-hand, the Catskill museum has a VERY large collection of bamboo and historic rods. Not all of them are on display but they are recorded and catalogued and can be viewed in their vault at the facility. I've seen them.
As far as "rare" rods, they are always in demand. Depending on rarity or significance, they can be difficult to obtain even IF you have the money. Folks that own items like that are reluctant to give them up....generally.
Many times a museum will sell duplicates of what they have to fund the purchase of an item they don't have and want.
Sure wish Jim Krul was a member here as he could provide a real insiders point of view.
I live not far from the AMFF. It is a wonderful place and a must see if you are in the area. You should also take the Orvis rod shop tour. Weekdays at 10:00 AM. I was a member of AMFF for a few years. The few dollars that went to the museum now goes to the Battenkill Restoration Project. The primary mission of the museum has become fund raising. I say this with regret but no animosity. It has become a matter of necessity. Thirty years ago it was only a side room off the Orvis sales floor. Today they have their own, beautiful facility. Years ago everything was volunteer, and a lot of it was from Orvis. Today they have a paid staff. Corporate and private benefactors are the primary source of income. Outside of memberships and a few dollars made in admission and at the gift shop, they have no other real source of income. They have substantial expenses and their income is dependent on the good will of others. There is no choice, raise funds or die. The outright purchase of an important rod or reel is not likely in these circumstances. Their collection is the product of donations. Some individual pieces, some entire collections. Like most museums, only a small portion is on public display. The archives have always been very available to interested parties and I have heard nothing that would indicate a change. On the second floor of the museum is the library. Pieces and entire collections of the who's who in modern angling literature. Lots of these are the books owned by angling authors. To spend a half hour reading A. Gingrich's copy of McClane's " Practical Fly Fishing" is a hoot! AgMD
I am among those that are non-members of both museums.
Thinking about it though, I believe these museums are worthy of any support they can receive from the members here that are truly involved in the sport and the collection and love of fishing the split cane rod.
We currently have 6231 members. I'm of the opinion you can probably discount at a minimum 60% of that number. One time posters, non-participants, etc., etc.
That leaves approx. 2500 active members and I would suggest that is probably way high!
Let's say 1000 actual active participating or non-posting members. This is all very arbitrary and non-statistically based of course.
If we all chip in whatever we can afford, I feel that would be a small shot in the arm to these museums.
What say ye bamboo lovers? I, personally, would like to see a donation made in the name of "The Classic Fly Rod Forum". Don't know for sure how we would go about such a donation.
I'm game for, say $25 bucks. Maybe let's have a fund raisning pledge effort and then let it be honest effort for each forum member to send his pledge in to said musem with our forum name on the check.
This could be a huge boom for those folks. They are suffering like the rest of us and are such fun places to visit.
bobbeegee wrote:
I am among those that are non-members of both museums.
Thinking about it though, I believe these museums are worthy of any support they can receive from the members here that are truly involved in the sport and the collection and love of fishing the split cane rod.
We currently have 6231 members. I'm of the opinion you can probably discount at a minimum 60% of that number. One time posters, non-participants, etc., etc.
That leaves approx. 2500 active members and I would suggest that is probably way high!
Let's say 1000 actual active participating or non-posting members. This is all very arbitrary and non-statistically based of course.
If we all chip in whatever we can afford, I feel that would be a small shot in the arm to these museums.
What say ye bamboo lovers? I, personally, would like to see a donation made in the name of "The Classic Fly Rod Forum". Don't know for sure how we would go about such a donation.
Any ideas or thoughts?
BobbyG
I would expect either organization would be glad to have a donation, we would need a volunteer to collect and bundle the individual contributions and forward the sum to the museum.
My AMFF membership expired a while ago, I do belong to the Catskill clan. One of the big differences I see is that the Vermont site is a classic museum, the Catskill museum is as much a teaching/interactive place. they do have rotating ehibits but they also introduce kids to fishing for example, and are active in saving working history such as the Gillum mill. They have a certain bamboo angle, such as the rod maker's class in June and the Gathering in September. And if you time it right you might get some of Anges' home made cookies or soup or she'll sign her son's books.
This could be done as easily as each of us posting a check(s) to one or both of the museums. Note on the check and in the cover letter that this donation is made in the name of "The Classic Fly Rod Forum". Donations "in the name of" is a big part of the fund raising game. If someone were to contact the museums, I am sure they would be happy to keep a separate accounting, particularly if such accounting might "stimulate" said giving. AgMD
I'm a member of one but not the other. One thing I've tried to do with my extra fishing money, other than on rods and reels, is to help support local projects. Our local streams are in trouble, groups like TU, Shenandoah Riverkeeper, Friends of the Shenandoah, are working hard to keep our streams in the best possible condition. I give what I can afford, and I'd rather see my money go to conservation groups at this time.
A couple years ago, Gmflyfish and I ended up with a near mint 10 foot Vom Hofe 8 sided rod that had spectacular nickel silver work in the reel seat. Not wanting to use it for actual fishing, we donated to the AMFF. Now, we can all enjoy it and know that it will be well cared for. And huge kudos to Orvis for their long time support of the museum.
I just wish the they would use a little more discretion when selecting their annual banquet speaker.
And I think that money must be the problem. It always is. If I were on the board of either major museum, I'd suggest an annual capital drive for key acquisitions. I simply cannot remember ever seeing a museum in bidding at Langs or elsewhere.
One of us is crazy in fishing and forget time.
And the other take part only in the party at night.
--Yoshikazu Fujioka
I think the question also needs to be asked - If you were curating one of these museums, and had xxx dollars to spend on acquisitions, what would you concentrate on? Rods and reels are important, but maybe more so to the members of this board than the museums themselves. Tackle is just one part of the picture.
"When all the rods and a lot of reels, lines, leader boxes, et cetera, had been sold, the gang paid at the cashier's
window for what they'd bought and then made a bee line for the rug room to test their rods. I put mine together, tested it for a moment or so, and then
started to show it to men I knew. Not a man was interested in my rod. They all, without a single exception, tried to get me to look at theirs. Extraordinary,
how self centered most men are. Have you noticed it? "
Of course, and a decision regarding concentration would be driven by an analysis of what the museum's needs were. Does it lack significant ephemera such as catalogs, original papers, etc? Or key reels? We could go on and on with such lists.
But rods, IMHO, remain the prime charismatic objects that we (& the general public) associate with fly fishing.
[A personal aside: one of my long-running critiques of AMFF is that 90%+ of their rod/reel collection is never seen. And as someone who has spent many many hours combing through its rods, I think it's a shame that the museum has so carefully tucked them away. This isn't meant to start a critique of AMFF, but I find the decision to be a curious curatorial decision. Knowing this, would I ever donate a rod to them? I'd have to think a long time about that.]
One of us is crazy in fishing and forget time.
And the other take part only in the party at night.
--Yoshikazu Fujioka
Short Tip wrote:I think the question also needs to be asked - If you were curating one of these museums, and had xxx dollars to spend on acquisitions, what would you concentrate on? Rods and reels are important, but maybe more so to the members of this board than the museums themselves. Tackle is just one part of the picture.
Just my opinion, but if I had those XXX dolars to spend, I suspect I'd spend it on researching who owned valued pieces (rods, reels, books, papers) and currying favor with those resources in the hope of getting a donation. I think these efforts would leverage the funds better.
As a former 25 year member of the AMFF, I must say they are always on the look out for donations versus purchases. If you would have asked me ten years ago all of my rods, reels, and books would have gone to AMFF. My books are now going the Montana State University Bud Lilly Collection. I am not sure about the rods. I am trying to leave my stuff in the state of Montana. All of monetary donations are in Montana or Idaho where I do most of my fishing. I have issues with AMFF going back to how they treated the former executive there. So do what you will - I would be more inclined to donate my rods to the Catskill Fly Fishing Museum before AMFF.
I think both museums are excellent facilities worthy of our support, and I belong to both of them. Few museums can exhibit all of their holdings at a given time; in fact, many, if not most, can exhibit only a small percentage of their artifacts. That, and storage limits, surely play a role in what items they accept in donation. I have no idea how decisions are made on what items to accept and put on view in Manchester and Livingston Manor. But let's face it, neither one of them is exactly on the beaten path and they are not going to get hordes of visitors like big-city museums do. I wish that they would make better use of their Web sites to display historic items, and possibly attract more donations. Talk about eye candy!
Thanks to all who have already responded to the poll. I think that donations are the principal source of acquisitions for both institutions in part, although I claim no understanding of the Internal Revenue Code, because there may be a tax advantage to the donor and so far the institutions find this meets their needs.
I share no confidence that a fund raising drive for acquisitions would be met with much success. I am only aware, historically, of the specific fund raising that took place when AMFF purchased the Benjamin Welch/Daniel Webster rod directly from Webster’s descendants when it was offered to the museum. I also believe that those specific funds were realized from a small number of specific contributors. When a large museum takes a run at a specific object at Christies or Sotheby’s for example, it has specific patron/donor/trustees lined up to fund the acquisition or knows in advance who will financially back up the purchase. Smaller institutions quite simply do not have this level of support.
These institutions also have other daily problems to cope with, some expected, some not. The Catskill institution, for example, has suffered of late with physical plant problems with a furnace, roof, and ceilings. When such problems come up, just like your house, car, or whatever, spending precious funds on further acquisitions becomes extremely difficult to justify.
With regard to much of a collection not being on view, I think that is true of any such institution. What the Metropolitan in New York has tucked away is enormous. But it only has, and can only maintain, so much open public space. There are no bare walls.
If a benefactor wished to fund and create an endowment to maintain additional gallery space, it might well be met with favor. But without both financial pieces in place there is only so much physical space that a budget can carry. That is not say, however, that everyone would feel comfortable donating an item (rod, reel, catalog, whatever) thinking it might simply go behind a locked door for eternity, never to be seen again. Were I to consider such a donation I would want a straightforward discussion with the institution regarding its policy on changing gallery displays and specifically the manner in which it makes its collection accessible for research and scholarship. As the American Association of Museums (which is the accrediting institution for the AMFF) makes clear, the entire collection is held for the public trust, balanced, naturally, by staffing and risk management issues.
Finally, and IMHO, I do not think for a moment that the general public, i.e., not us, finds a multitude of fishing rods on a wall with distinctions that may mean little to this public, to be any more “charismatic” than a display of reels or 19th century salmon flies and related books.
I used to be a member of both the CFFC and AMFF. I now maintain an AMFF membership only. Though I believe both are excellent repositories for the memorabilia and ephemera associated with our sport, I have yet to visit either institution.
However, I have contributed tackle to the AMFF and even wrote an article or two for their periodical years ago. Controversies aside, I believe both museums are well worth supporting.
Regards,
Flyman
"There are three things in life that people like to stare at: a flowing stream, a crackling fire and a Zamboni clearing the ice."-Charlie Brown
Hi Guys, I've been an AMFF member for many years though I've never been there and may never go there. I do like knowing that there is a 'repository' for our artifacts. I did once go to the Federation of Fly Fisherman museum when it was in West Yellowstone. They had a wonderful display of Kosmic rods. I took a bunch of pictures and 'hung out.' It was great. I'll get to the other museums someday, I hope. My question would be whether the FFF museum [If it still exists.] might also be a target for donations. I'm not a member of FFF or the Catskill museum. Jay Edwards
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