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I really admire all the work of all the folks who are turning out such great looking reels but why does everyone make the Von Hoffe style? Now I'm
particularly fond of the raised pillar style and there are some nice ones made but very few compared to the Von Hoffe style. Is there a reason that there are
no new versions of the St. George or the Uniqua styles being made? How about some of the real nice pre-war Young or Dingley models?
The above is not meant to be a complaint or rant. I'm genuinely interested in your views and opinions.
I can' really give a definitive answer as to why most of the bench made reels are in the Vom Hoff style but as someone who has made a perfect copy,
I'll try to guess.
(Just one, and I am currently working on a second, doesn't really qualify me as a maker.)
Firstly there is at least one American maker of perfect style reels, Tim (not me) at http://thespeycompany.blogspot.com/.
The original reels were machined for cast blanks, so that makes it difficult for a hobbyist to copy, The alternative is to machine from solid bar, which is
time consuming and a little wasteful. Or to solder the pillars like Dingley. That's just plain difficult.
But I think the main reason you see more S handle reels is cultural. If you are going to go to the trouble of making a reel (or a rod) you tend to be inspired
by the examples the you see as the "best". Looking at it from this side of the pond, That would appear to be reels in the tradition of Vom Hoff and
Bogdan. Coming from England, where we don't really have much history of S handle reels, they don't do it for me (ducks and covers!) so I went for a
Perfect. Strangely though, I don't build English style rods, I think I'm far more influenced by contemporary US makers.
Thanks for your response. What you say makes sense from the perspective of the maker of bench made reels. I had seen the website for the Spey Company and they
certainly deserve praise for making something other than another Vom Hoffe reel. If their quality is equal to the appearance I wish them only the greatest
success. But it seems to me that there are two questions within this subject. As of now, one can choose from a large number of makers and prices for Vom Hoffe
style reels ranging from $2,000 for a benchmade number to less than $200 for a CNC import. So my first question is, if someone sets out to make reels as a
business why would they choose to make another Vom Hoffe clone? It looks to me as if their are other niches waiting to be filled where there is little to no
competition, such as the raised pillar style and the other reel types I've already mentioned. My second question would be is there a ready market for
modern clones of these other style reels?
Hardy certainly think there is a market for classic style click pawl reels, as evidenced by their re-release of the prefects and marquises. But in many ways
they are ideally placed to take advantage of the high end production market. They have access to a large scale manufacturing facility, and of course the have
the Name, I think the it would take a great deal of courage for anyone else to commission a production run of St George style reels. There isn't really a
proven business model there, and would be perceived as a very "niche" market. The main-stream trout reel market seems to be dominated by some
universal (and to my mind very weird) assumptions. So we end up with an acceptance that lighter is always best, 3wt reels need disk drags, and the better the
reel the larger the arbour. By these standards a perfect must be one of the worst reels in the world. Then there is the problem of the agate, to my mind the
best bit of this type of reel. Unfortunately, putting on a line guide makes it rather difficult to swap from LHW to RHW.
It would be slightly easier for a bespoke maker to launch a classic style reel. It could even be black lead finished, and the only development costs would be
the makers time and materials. It could be made to order, so no stocking costs. But is there a market for a $1500 Perfect? I'm not sure I'd be
interested even if I could afford one. (Mine by the way, are nowhere near saleable quality, and would have to cost around £650 if I wanted to make a living on
them, Thankfully I don't!)
Seems both Edward Vom Hofe and Bogdan have reputations of being the best American made fly reels ever produced. Both incoporate an "S" handle in
their design. Try to acquire either one for under $1k....................that says a lot about the product, especially when most of them are much older than
me. I have owned both, disassembled them, and studied their designs. While more complex than today's reels, their designs are timeless, well engineered,
and are are nothing but a quality product. Aesthetically, to me, they are much more pleasing to the eye compared to today's how many shapes/holes can you
CNC cut into a piece of billet aluminum.
However, its all about supply and demand. Its hard to perform a major marketing study to see what type of reel will sell. Since this is a classic reel and rod
forum, its somewhat assumed that most people on this site are interested in "classic" style reels. Basically replicas or close clones of reels made
in a previous ERA. Speyco performed a pretty good surf with his questions on what the people on this site are looking for in a reel design. That invoked many
ideas and answers and showed that one reel would probably not match everyone's requirements. Most of today's quality classic replicas are very
expensive and very labor intense to produce. I know of one manufacturer that has even changed his design all together so that most of the "hard"
work is performed by computer controlled machines. Demand and cost will drive a manufactuer to do this. However, what type of reel are you specifically
looking for? A "one-off" reel can be engineered and manufactured if you willing to pay for it. If you want one that is currently not produced, let
me know.
Speyco...................totally agree with your rant. Its very frustrating as an Amercian to see where we are headed. I think we as Amercians have forgotten
the hardships our forefathers had endured to get us to the top. We have gotten fat and lazy and at some point its going to bite us in the you know where.
Whats more frustrating is the fact that it is almost impossible not to buy a China made product anywhere. Corporate America and the free trade agreement is
about the 10/90 rule making it to the 1/99.
Speyco, I understand and agree with your sentiments. Money has no morals or ethics and when money is the sole focus of a company's leadership then ...
Holireels, Thank you but I'm not shopping for anything reel wise at the present. My question was and is, "How is it that so many makers end up making
what is essentialy the same design?" It sounds as if maybe it's the only classic style that will sell.
Greg,
Don't forget Bruce Howell, he builds the old West Coast Thompson with original parts, and makes a real nice copy of the Perfect. That is when he is not
building bamboo rods. or out fishing at his WY cabin (where he is right now)
David
See you at Camp Sherman
A number of us have been working on designs for traditionally styled English made fly reels for some time now, and I commissioned the production of a
prototype of one design this morning.
Hey speyco, I don't think you need to apologize for your "rant"... I liked it... in fact, I saved it... very well said and very informative...
Thanks,
Bob
Hardy hasn't moved reel production to China, but to (South) Korea, if I was informed correctly. Puts things in a slightly different perspective. I also
believe it wasn't simply a matter of money in the sense of bigger profits, but to keep the company alive. Otherwise Hardy, being the company that they
are/were, would never have made this choice.
If you offer quality, but at a price, there's only a small market for you to target. And ironically the quality of your product (let's say that your
reel is built to last a hundred years) doesn't help your sales numbers. The majority of people is just looking for 'acceptable' for the lowest
possible price, or at least the best bang-for-buck, and if something is broken you don't fix it, but you buy a new one.
This 'average consumer' dictates global economy, so more traditional 'old world' companies will be forced into outsourcing and there's
nothing that we (a minority that thinks differently when it comes to fishing gear) can do about it.
Thank you, FWdb
for clarifying the move by Hardy. I do apologize and you are right. Sorry for the misdirection. I was misinformed. It really does make it
better - South Korea is a free market. It took a bit of digging to find out were they moved production, but I did.
It still does not sway my views on the U.S./ China trade market. As to everything being needing to made overseas to be competitive to today's market
place, I have to disagree. All it takes is hard work and a love for product being made.
Thank you again for clarifying my mistake about the move. I am a man and will be the first one to admit my mistakes.
And to the original poster - sorry to hijack your thread.
Tim
No apology needed. Thanks very much for your contributions to this thread including your "rant". I hope that you understood that I was not
complaining that most every maker is using the Vom Hoffe style but rather asking why so many chose that style rather than others. Nor did I want anyone making
this style to feel that they had to defend their choice. You are doing beautiful work and I hope that you sell lots of reels and keep all your fingers in the
process.
Tim, no need for apologies, please. I fully agree with you on your thoughts about China, and for that reason I also think the Olympics shouldn't be held
there. But that instantly causes another moral dilemma, knowing that the 1988 Seoul Olympics made a big difference for South Korea. Hope we can say the same
about China in 20 years' time...
But to take this on-topic again, I really admire your work, looking at the other thread and your website.
I wish you the best of luck business- and otherwise!
On the subject of Hardy reels, has anyone seen the price of used Hardy reels recently. I saw an LRH and Featherweight at the Metolius show each going for $300
plus each. I own a flyweight and was going to sell it, but at those prices will hold on to it. They were also I may add in poor condition, alot of chips and
scratches all over the reels. Paul
Last Edited By: Trouter2 07/22/2008 21:06.
Edited 1 time.
Trouter2 wrote:
On the subject of Hardy reels, has anyone seen the price of used Hardy reels recently. I saw an LRH and Featherweight at the Metolius show each going for
$300 plus each. I own a flyweight and was going to sell it, but at those prices will hold on to it. They were also I may add in poor condition, alot of chips
and scatches all over the reels. Paul
I believe all vintage Hardy reels have enjoyed a rather substantial price increase as of late due to widespread CW stating all new Hardy reels are being
made in Korea. While that isn't true (yet), all those holding Hardys stamped "Made in England" have received a nice little windfall as a result
of the speculation.
david do you have a contact info for bruce howell, the west coast thompson reels , a reel that should have never went out of production in this country .its a
nice or even nice then the hardy prefect . be intrested to see bruces reels .
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